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  #2641  
Old August 6th, 2018, 02:09 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I don't feel that including both a defensive and an offensive power relating to the souls is necessary. Either one could easily be represented by some stat changes on the card (such as bumping up his defense a little bit or giving him range normally), and I'm not convinced that adding both makes a significant difference in gameplay style from just adding one.

Whether he gets extra defense dice with more figures on his card or not, players will still be heavily incentivized to kill their own figures to get more use out of that powerful Special Attack. It seems like dropping the defensive power wouldn't compromise too much of the design while reducing complexity, especially considering the fact that he is still a relatively cheap figure.
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  #2642  
Old August 6th, 2018, 03:03 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post

I'd just straight bump him to 4 Defense, and take out that funny wording about how strong he can be up to X...

Soul Sacrifice

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may choose any Common Squad figure who follow Valkrill and destroy that figure and place it on this army card.

Souls Special Attack Range 4 Attack 4
When attacking with this attack, you may attack one additional time as long as there is an Common Squad Figure on this army card. After attacking with Souls Special attack, roll the 20 sided die. If you roll 1-8, remove a Common Squad figure from this army card.

Soul Revival - Change it to just Common Squad Undead as the criteria.

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  #2643  
Old August 6th, 2018, 05:27 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post

I'd just straight bump him to 4 Defense, and take out that funny wording about how strong he can be up to X...

Soul Sacrifice

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may choose any Common Squad figure who follow Valkrill and destroy that figure and place it on this army card.

Souls Special Attack Range 4 Attack 4
When attacking with this attack, you may attack one additional time as long as there is an Common Squad Figure on this army card. After attacking with Souls Special attack, roll the 20 sided die. If you roll 1-8, remove a Common Squad figure from this army card.

Soul Revival - Change it to just Common Squad Undead as the criteria.
I’m impressed. This was actually pretty close to a new version I mocked up last night and was going to post with some changes today. I’ll post it later tonight after work.

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  #2644  
Old August 6th, 2018, 05:28 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

@Sir Heroscape It just occurred to me that Strength of Souls allows you to place any common Valkrill figure on Druzhul's army card. However Return of Souls only forces you to place Undead Valkrill figures back into the game. This would mean that by using non-undead figures, you are permanently buffing Druzhul for the rest of the game, becausee there's no way to remove them. This kind of potential buff would make designing lower cost Valkrill common squads, or common heros very difficult, because they could be used to permanently buff Druzhul. Imagine if Valkrill ever received a 40 point 4 figure, or a 30 point 3 figure squad? They would break Druzhul in his current state. Adding the clause of "undead" fixes this, because return of souls forces you to loose the buff if you ever kill anything. I misread the card at first and thought that since Return of Souls was undead only, that Strength of Souls must be as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
I'd just straight bump him to 4 Defense, and take out that funny wording about how strong he can be up to X...

Soul Sacrifice

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may choose any Common Squad figure who follow Valkrill and destroy that figure and place it on this army card.

Souls Special Attack Range 4 Attack 4
When attacking with this attack, you may attack one additional time as long as there is an Common Squad Figure on this army card. After attacking with Souls Special attack, roll the 20 sided die. If you roll 1-8, remove a Common Squad figure from this army card.

Soul Revival - Change it to just Common Squad Undead as the criteria.
I like a lot of Kinseth's suggestions here too.

I like the suggestion to remove the defense buff from the first power, because it's simple, but it doesn't change the way the design plays over all. A simple defense increase to 4 is a good way to keep Druzhul's general power at around the same point.

I also think that limiting Strength of souls to 1 figure per turn is a good way of preventing any kind of snowball effect. Allowing for 2 per turn buffs him up quickly, and a ranged special attack of 4 is nothing to laugh at. I don't think he needs to be able to buff his special so quickly, so it feels unnecessary to me. If this feels too harsh, maybe you can increase his range to 5.

I actually don't agree with the Souls of the Dead suggestion though. It would fix the issue with Strength of Souls that I brought up above, by incorporating a risk of removing any figures that are on the card, but including a d20 feels like it's adding things to do during the turn, which is just making it more complex.

Return of Souls looks to be borrowing from the limitations of the Zombies of Morindan, as well as Nicolas Esenwein. Removing the small/medium requirement looks like a good idea because that's actually a downside for Druzhul. Druzhul wants to keep his souls, limiting it to small/medium just gives him things that he can attack without reviving them. This is the same reason that I don't think an undead restriction should be added to this power either. I don't think anyone has suggested that yet, but it would only be a buff to the design, and not a downside as it might initially appear.
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  #2645  
Old August 6th, 2018, 05:29 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I don't feel that including both a defensive and an offensive power relating to the souls is necessary. Either one could easily be represented by some stat changes on the card (such as bumping up his defense a little bit or giving him range normally), and I'm not convinced that adding both makes a significant difference in gameplay style from just adding one.

Whether he gets extra defense dice with more figures on his card or not, players will still be heavily incentivized to kill their own figures to get more use out of that powerful Special Attack. It seems like dropping the defensive power wouldn't compromise too much of the design while reducing complexity, especially considering the fact that he is still a relatively cheap figure.
I actually agree here. I will be posting a new version tonight with some changes I already had made last night after some concerns were voiced.

EDIT: @Leaf_It thank you. Again, surprising how some of your suggestions were actually already changes I made to the design last night. I’ll post it tonight. It’ll be kinda cool because each of you mentioned little things I adjusted already which gives me confidence In those changes.

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  #2646  
Old August 6th, 2018, 05:48 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Has to be a way to remove a figure off the card, otherwise it feels pointless and you should take away complexity and just raise the price and give him double attack.

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  #2647  
Old August 6th, 2018, 06:03 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Has to be a way to remove a figure off the card, otherwise it feels pointless and you should take away complexity and just raise the price and give him double attack.
This was why in the first part of my post I state that the Strength of Souls ability should be limited to Valkrill common undead, And why I agreed that Return of Souls should have the small/medium restriction removed, so that you can always remove the figures from the card.
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  #2648  
Old August 7th, 2018, 10:22 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

This is what I had for changes.


(Apologies the card should read “Figure you control” for the first power.)

I believe this version still captures the flavor I have been going for, but broadens the synergy to all Undead and simplifies the powers. I agreed with the defense change and that is reflected in the stats. I also changed the name of the first special because I like Kinseth's idea for the power name better. I limited his adding a figure to 1 per turn and allowed only 2 on his card.

One thing I did realize though is that as the card reads...his power will only allow him to attack 2 times if he kills on his first attack with his special. Currently it reads so that he can use the special attack without having a figure on his card, but he gets 1 additional attack for each figure on his card. But, even though he has 2 figures on his card, the first time he uses it and kills something he has to replace one of those figures, which means he'd only have 1 additional attack. If he missed on his first attack though, or it was blocked, then he would have 2 additional attacks. One way to avoid that would be to just add a "may immediately replace" clause, but then I believe most players would just opt to keep the figures on his card so he gets multi-attacks. I'm not sure yet if this makes him unnecessarily complex or if this would just be a feature of his design. My initial thought is that I need to find a way to avoid that complexity, but not sure yet. The may clause actually might be best because as a player I could replace 1 during my attacks and then my next turn suck him back up to max out my attacks again. Not sure...Thoughts?

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Last edited by Sir Heroscape; August 7th, 2018 at 12:27 PM.
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  #2649  
Old August 7th, 2018, 11:32 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

@Sir Heroscape - I would suggest restricting to Undead Common Squad figures. I guess I don't get why you want to destroy guys and place them on this card, and then take the same guys off this card into play...

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

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  #2650  
Old August 7th, 2018, 12:15 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
@Sir Heroscape - I would suggest restricting to Undead Common Squad figures. I guess I don't get why you want to destroy guys and place them on this card, and then take the same guys off this card into play...
I suppose you "charge up" when there are no enemy units in range, or for dealing more damage to heroes.


I actually like the Soul being lost when an attack is unsuccessful. Seems odd, that attacks that wound heroes don't cost souls.


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  #2651  
Old August 7th, 2018, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
@Sir Heroscape - I would suggest restricting to Undead Common Squad figures. I guess I don't get why you want to destroy guys and place them on this card, and then take the same guys off this card into play...
I like the option of sucking up a common undead to involve units like Thralls while that might not be practical for 30pts worth, it does allow wider synergy which I like. Simply that he’s “sucking out” their souls and then returning them to those he’s destroyed. Makes sense to me, not sure where the hangup is...

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  #2652  
Old August 7th, 2018, 12:20 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
@Sir Heroscape - I would suggest restricting to Undead Common Squad figures. I guess I don't get why you want to destroy guys and place them on this card, and then take the same guys off this card into play...
I like the option of sucking up a common undead to involve units like Thralls while that might not be practical for 30pts worth, it does allow wider synergy which I like. Simply that he’s “sucking out” their souls and then returning them to those he’s destroyed. Makes sense to me, not sure where the hangup is...
I know what you are doing, I don't see "Why" you want to remove the card once it is on the Hero. You are diminishing his power to place the figure back onto the map.

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites.
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