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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #109  
Old June 22nd, 2016, 10:25 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Yeah, still not too surprised about that. He's right that the Turtles are definitely out of their league against armies like the Fan4; really their only hope of winning that game would have been if MM could have assassinated Invisible Woman, and even then I don't know if the Turtles could have taken on the Thing.

I think the question is whether or not you want the Turtles to be able to take on armies like the Fan4 or Wrecking Crew or whatever. If so, they need their power-level tweaked upwards. But if you're content with them being on the level of armies like the Vigilantes and Crime Fighters, than I think simply lowering their cost some will do the trick.

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  #110  
Old June 22nd, 2016, 01:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

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Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Yeah, still not too surprised about that. He's right that the Turtles are definitely out of their league against armies like the Fan4; really their only hope of winning that game would have been if MM could have assassinated Invisible Woman, and even then I don't know if the Turtles could have taken on the Thing.

I think the question is whether or not you want the Turtles to be able to take on armies like the Fan4 or Wrecking Crew or whatever. If so, they need their power-level tweaked upwards. But if you're content with them being on the level of armies like the Vigilantes and Crime Fighters, than I think simply lowering their cost some will do the trick.
I agree with this assessment. I'm just not sure where I fall on the direction to go in. I would really like to play the Turtles in my games and my opponents tend to go with heavy hitters, so leaving them as is means I most likely won't use them too often. However I struggle with the idea of boosting their stats and powers above where they thematically should be.

Beebop and Rocksteady are not really powerhouses when compared to the likes of Thor and the Hulk. Those two each seem more on the power level of a single member of the Wrecking Crew, and we usually see the four turtles team up to take down the 2 (plus some Foot Clan) rather then taking on 4 of them at once. Which means 4 Turtles =/= 4 member Wrecking Crew. Since they beat the duo pretty consistently I'd also say 4 Turtles >> 2 member Wrecking Crew though. Which leaves them more in line with 4 Turtles = 3 member Wrecking Crew, or 4 Turtles = ~600 point team. Add in Casey Jones and/or Splinter if you want to get up closer to the 750-850 point battles. I'm not sure if all 6 of them would ever be able to take on the Fan 4 on their own. The Fan4 are just on another power level with all their abilities.
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  #111  
Old June 22nd, 2016, 04:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Yeah, still not too surprised about that. He's right that the Turtles are definitely out of their league against armies like the Fan4; really their only hope of winning that game would have been if MM could have assassinated Invisible Woman, and even then I don't know if the Turtles could have taken on the Thing.

I think the question is whether or not you want the Turtles to be able to take on armies like the Fan4 or Wrecking Crew or whatever. If so, they need their power-level tweaked upwards. But if you're content with them being on the level of armies like the Vigilantes and Crime Fighters, than I think simply lowering their cost some will do the trick.
I agree with this assessment. I'm just not sure where I fall on the direction to go in. I would really like to play the Turtles in my games and my opponents tend to go with heavy hitters, so leaving them as is means I most likely won't use them too often. However I struggle with the idea of boosting their stats and powers above where they thematically should be.

Beebop and Rocksteady are not really powerhouses when compared to the likes of Thor and the Hulk. Those two each seem more on the power level of a single member of the Wrecking Crew, and we usually see the four turtles team up to take down the 2 (plus some Foot Clan) rather then taking on 4 of them at once. Which means 4 Turtles =/= 4 member Wrecking Crew. Since they beat the duo pretty consistently I'd also say 4 Turtles >> 2 member Wrecking Crew though. Which leaves them more in line with 4 Turtles = 3 member Wrecking Crew, or 4 Turtles = ~600 point team. Add in Casey Jones and/or Splinter if you want to get up closer to the 750-850 point battles. I'm not sure if all 6 of them would ever be able to take on the Fan 4 on their own. The Fan4 are just on another power level with all their abilities.
I think the Wrecking Crew is a good comparison. I think the 4 turtles with Splinter and Casey should be about equal to the full Wrecking Crew with normal rolls. The WC when hot on the other hand could potentially win a 1000 point game on their own.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #112  
Old June 23rd, 2016, 09:13 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

I agree with all of you. TMNT should not be taking out Fan4 or even the Wrecking Crew.

I just looked at a bunch of cards to get a good feeling of where they should be at and I'm concerned they may be overcosted by about 10 points each. I'd like to test them at:

Don: 140
Mike: 160
Raph: 160
Leo: 190

That would give them a total of 650, which seems about right looking at these tests.

What do the rest of you think?

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  #113  
Old June 23rd, 2016, 10:26 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

I'm fine giving that a shot - though I'm wary of Donny going down with the boost he just got, even if it's a bit minor.

Where do you see Splinter/April/Casey coming in? Would be cool to get the expanded group at a round number.
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  #114  
Old June 23rd, 2016, 10:45 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

I'm cool with seeing that tested.

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  #115  
Old June 23rd, 2016, 12:33 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

I'm on board. If the four of them are crushing it at 650 then we will take another look at what we can do to make them better balanced at that level.
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  #116  
Old June 23rd, 2016, 01:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Well when Raph was 170 I thought a 130 Casey wasn't out of the question but 140 definitely is. Maybe a 90 point Casey to give the duo a 250 point team up?

I'd really like the two to come in at a round number for obvious reasons.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #117  
Old August 6th, 2016, 07:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Leonardo

Army Test
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Leo (190), Don (140), Mikey (160), Raph (160) (650) VS Cyclops (190), Phoenix (230), Emma Frost (170), Jubilee (60) (650)
Unit Summary:
Damage:
4 wounds to Jubilee, 3 to Phoenix.
Turtle Power: 5 times used; 10 OMs removed.
Ninja Focus: 1 times used (boosted Gauntlet roll).
Spoiler Alert!



Army Test
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Leo (190), John Stewart (340), Mikey (160), Raph (160) (850) VS Hawkman (220), Green Lantern (280), Starman (190), Mister Terrific (150) (840)
Unit Summary:
Damage:
none.
Turtle Power: 3 times used; 3 OMs removed.
Ninja Focus: 0 times used.
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Leo’s pretty solid, and his powers are useful for sure, but the Turtles as a whole seem to struggle a bit still. They’re each solid on their own, but as a team, they struggle against other factions, even on a similar power level. Their biggest issues are that they only get 4 turns per round, and it’s hard to move them up as a team. A lot of other teams have bonding, or movement powers that allow them to function more easily as a team.

Turtle Power gives you some flexibility of when your turns come, but unless you’re rolling really well, those turns aren’t offering a ton. If you do roll well though, you can have some pretty wild turns. Outside of giving one of them some sort of bonding or movement power, I think stat boosts would help. Bumping their Defenses to 6, or each of their Attacks by one would either keep them around longer or allow them to hit harder. Another option is to borrow from Hawkman and give a +1 Attack boost on any turns taken with Turtle Power.


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Turtle Power is a really cool power and I got some fun turns out of it. Ninja Focus doesn’t come up a lot, but it’s handy when it does. Double Attack gives him some solid offensive power. Overall, I like Leo, I just think the Turtles need some tweaking still.

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  #118  
Old August 8th, 2016, 06:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Here's Ronin's tests:

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Leonardo

Army Test
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Ninja Turtles (650) vs Ms. Marvel, Wonder Woman (650)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Ninja Turtles (650) vs Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Scarlet Spider (Ben Reilly) (640)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Couple losses. 4 in a row for me, counting my last tests. Admittedly, they suffered some bad luck in the second game, but I'm just not having much success with the Turtles, and based on the cost drops, I suspect other people aren't either. Based on the games I just played, I think they'd be better off trying their luck at 600. Part of the problem may just be that they're not cohesive enough. Without the attack boosters he was tested with, Donny is going to have a hard time doing much damage to most supers units, and Raph is also hard to get any offensive utility out of unless he's activating with Self-Importance (which creates kind of a weird dynamic where you're actually hoping he flies off the handle).

It might be a good change to give a +1 attack boost to figures activated with Turtle Power. It's a little weak as a bonding power as-is, since it only gives you one extra turn per round (and that's an extra turn with a Ninja Turtle, who's not giving you a ton of attack dice or anything). Another possible change would be letting Leo move a couple Turtles normally if he doesn't want to burn any OMs on their cards. That would help a lot with moving them up as a group, as well as setting up Mikey to defend, or setting up Donny for a Staff Vault.

Also, it's been a while, but back when I tested him individually, couldn't Raph multi-attack when you activated him normally? IMO, moving back in that direction for him would be best. I think only letting him multi-attack on his Self-Importance turns hurts his value a lot and right now I feel like I'm encouraged not to (deliberately) take turns with him. Even just being able to double-attack on his normal turns (with the triple attack reserved for Self Importance) would help him a lot.

Still really digging all the Turtles individually, but I'm thinking they might need a few little tweaks in order to fight better as a team.

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  #119  
Old August 8th, 2016, 06:43 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Hmm... what do you think about changing Leo's Double Attack to this?

Quote:
FEARLESS LEADER
When a Ninja Turtle you control attacks, it may attack one additional time.

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  #120  
Old August 8th, 2016, 06:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Hmm... what do you think about changing Leo's Double Attack to this?

Quote:
FEARLESS LEADER
When a Ninja Turtle you control attacks, it may attack one additional time.
That gives them a lot more offense, but it stacks crazily with Donny's Bo Staff and Raph's Self-Importance turns. Leo+Donny+whatever stat boosters you can get, and I don't even want to calculate how many attacks you could get.

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