600 Point Competitive Armies

[dok]

Originally Posted by killercactus

I basically view it as just an army of all Stingers, except that they have a special attack when they need it. I've seen Q9 and 6x Stingers kill pretty much everything at 540 points. For some reason, I've seen Stinger hordes blow right through rats and Raelin, even though I think to myself that Deathreavers should be good against them.

Certainly rats & Raelin should be good against most things. But when I think of the abilities of stingers, my inclination is that they struggle against armies that can simply outgun them. That basically means armies that can muster an attack of 3 four times per order marker. To pick the simplest example, I'd pick 4thx6 over Stingersx7 every time.

Now, Q9 covers that particular hole fairly well, such that I might pick your 600-point stinger&Q9 army over Jexik's 4th, Captain, Eldgrim army. I'd have to think about that.

[nyys]

I'm sure this army is in this thread somewhere, but since it's on my table now for some map testing, I'll give it a little bump.

Taelord
Omnicrons x2
Minions x2
600

[KCU Master 2007]

For a while, I loved this build. I still do, but not competitively. I've been thinking recently that Minions and Taelord, as awesome as they are together on paper, don't work that well in practice.

I say this because the Taelord, Minion, Sniper army gets only 3 attacks per order marker and only has 13 figs, 12 of which are squads. In the 600 point games, a lot of armies, such as 7x Stingers and Q9 army, are going to have mass amount of squads.

Because of this, some rat cover is needed and the defense from Raelin will help your limited number of ranged units. That's just my

[ollie]

Originally Posted by nyys

I'm sure this army is in this thread somewhere, but since it's on my table now for some map testing, I'll give it a little bump.

Taelord
Omnicrons x2
Minions x2
600

I played that army at the Saratoga Slugfest. KCU's comments describe my experience exactly---Taelord and Omnicrons were great while they lasted, but the Taelord/Minions side just didn't work out as well as I hoped. In hindsight, I'd have prefered:

Taelord: 180
Omnicrons x3: 300
Rats x3: 120

Total: 600pts, 22 hexes.

I'm trying to use rats less, so I might take them out for the Nakitas, or SotM Raelin, or Izumi and Zetacron, or...

Not having to play Bengi is another improvement I might have wished for.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by KCU Master 2007

<snip> Said stuff...

Originally Posted by ollie

<snip> Also said stuff...

LOL! I just got done doing a Battle Report in the Asymmetric thread describing the same thing.

For what it's worth, to stay on topic, the other 600pt army in the Battle Report was:

Braxas
Micros x3
Rats x2
Isamu
600

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by dok

Certainly rats & Raelin should be good against most things. But when I think of the abilities of stingers, my inclination is that they struggle against armies that can simply outgun them. That basically means armies that can muster an attack of 3 four times per order marker. To pick the simplest example, I'd pick 4thx6 over Stingersx7 every time.

Now, Q9 covers that particular hole fairly well, such that I might pick your 600-point stinger&Q9 army over Jexik's 4th, Captain, Eldgrim army. I'd have to think about that.

That's something I meant to mention and didn't - Q9 covers the Stinger weakness against Mass/10th (along with performing rat extermination duty). It fits my playstyle (just run forward and kill stuff) very well too.

[Jexik]

In the mindshackle tourney this year, s_p's 3x Deathreavers/ 4x Stingers, NGS (dropped 1 rat) beat Jacob j_p's 6x stingers + NGS. Pure stingers seems to falter against rats and other units... but this doesn't really refute your Q9 idea, and is still just one game.

I also think lonewolf beat Hendal in Day 2, with 4x Stingers, 2x Rats, Kaemon, Raelin; beating 7x Stingers, Raelin, and Marcu.

Neither of those were 600 point games, and who knows how much the dice, map, and player ability came into it, but I guess I just have a hard time believing that there's one best army.

Q9 covering up the Stingers' weakness against 4th Mass is an interesting point, much as Captain America helps fix the 4th Mass problems with Q9 and/or rats.

I think your point about your own playing style is a good one though. Stingers and Q9 might be the best for some, but not others.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

At 600 points -- Ornak!

100 Ornak
140 2 x Heavy Gruts
50 Nerak
50 Me-Burq-Sa

plus [Tornak, Mimring, Isamu] [DW 9000, Marcu, Tornak] [DW 9000, Grimnak]

David

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

At 600 points -- Ornak!

100 Ornak
140 2 x Heavy Gruts
50 Nerak
50 Me-Burq-Sa

plus [Tornak, Mimring, Isamu] [DW 9000, Marcu, Tornak] [DW 9000, Grimnak]

David

I know the idea is to use Ornak's ability, but I might still try to sneak in more Heavy Gruts.

Maybe:

Ornak 100
4x Heavy Gruts 380
Nerak 430
MBS 480
Grimnak 600 (or Tornak + Marcu) 23 and 24 hexes, respectively.

I might have to try one of those out. I love playing orc armies, and I'm always looking for an Ornak build that will actually work.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Jexik

In the mindshackle tourney this year, s_p's 3x Deathreavers/ 4x Stingers, NGS (dropped 1 rat) beat Jacob j_p's 6x stingers + NGS. Pure stingers seems to falter against rats and other units... but this doesn't really refute your Q9 idea, and is still just one game.

I also think lonewolf beat Hendal in Day 2, with 4x Stingers, 2x Rats, Kaemon, Raelin; beating 7x Stingers, Raelin, and Marcu.

Hendal beat me on Day 1 with that army, and I was running more rats than lonewolf was. But, then again 1) I'm not lonewolf and 2) Hendal's dice were on fire against me. He was also rolling Stinger Drain regularly and got it every time except maybe once when he rolled a 7 or something.

I also lost to fallensoldier's 6x Rats, Krug, Arrow Gruts, but I should've won that game. I lost due to my own idiocy and his 7 lava/leaving engagement rolls that were all shields.

I guess (mainly against Hendal) the Stingers raw firepower and numbers were just too much for the Deathreavers to handle. Of course, I forgot about the Stinger Draining until just now. That definitely helped...

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Jexik

I'm always looking for an Ornak build that will actually work.

Sign me up for that too! One problem is that the best units for Ornak to activate are NOT the ones that work best with Gruts. How about:

DW9k 140
DW8k 130
Ornak 100
Raelin 80
Isamu 10
2xHeavy Gruts 140

It'd be quite a firebase and forces your opponent to decide whether to target Ornak, Raelin or a DW first.

~Aldin, explosively

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by killercactus

Hendal beat me on Day 1 with that army, and I was running more rats than lonewolf was. But, then again 1) I'm not lonewolf and 2) Hendal's dice were on fire against me. He was also rolling Stinger Drain regularly and got it every time except maybe once when he rolled a 7 or something.

Hendal in general is pretty beastly though. You say that you play aggressively, but that man gave me one of my worst losses of the con in the Unique Hero tournament. His Nilfheim went right for the throat and never let go. My only loss that was worse was against Lonewolf on a particularly bad army and map matchup in the 3rd round of the Jumpstart event. Come to think of it, both of those losses were on Little Ramparts- it's definitely not my favorite map now.

I'm not saying that more rats = better against tons of stingers, but that stingers + some rats > stingers + more stingers... I'm not even 100% sure of that, but it's how I tend to pick them.