[Pod 1] PYRIA (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Playtesting

[All Your Pie]

If we're sticking at 4A (which I'm currently still in favor of), I think we're very close to finishing up playtesting on this unit. If we bump her down to 3A, we'll need to do a fair bit more testing. I'm willing to do whichever leads to making the best unit for the set, but there is a significant difference there that we'll need to explore.

Considering the rest of the set is important, but I can't consider what isn't here yet. There is going to be some amount of later designs having to avoid overstepping on the territory of the early ones, which is a shame, but the other way around isn't workable. That said, I do also think we'll have to do some amount of editing once we have most or all of our units in a semi-final state and testing together, as that will reveal things we couldn't have known before. We'll likely have to make changes and run additional tests at that stage no matter what, so if those considerations suggest we should change Pyria to 3A then we can wait and see rather than making a decision now.

I do find caps' point that there aren't really any units like her in the 70-90 point range persuasive--most figures at that mark are synergistic or supportive, not pure attackers. I'll try and run some tests tonight and see how I feel about Pyria where she is now.

[Pumpkin_King]

Alright, you guys are probably right. I say we test her as she is and fiddle with her power level/cost if we need to.

[All Your Pie]

440 points
Map: Ruins of Rennoc
Glyphs: Gerda

Army 1: Pyria, Nhah Scirh x4
Army 2: Quorik Warwitch, Beakface Sneaks x6, Major Q10


Which units survived? & Nhah Scirh

The Nhah Scirh massed on both sides of the map while the sneaks advanced and Q10 took some potshots. The cultists soon rushed the major's position, easily blowing through sneaks and tying down the major so that Pyria could advance. Her normal attacks on the way in did quite well, including a strong 3w hit from height on Q10, and once she engaged she fired off a couple flamethrowers for a bit more damage before falling to a barrage of Orb fire from the Warwitch.

After that, the remaining sneaks folded before the numbers and stats of the cultists. The Warwitch made a decent show of endgame kiting, but Flutter didn't keep her in business long enough to do much damage.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Normal Attacks: 1 Sneak, 3w Q10
Twin Flamethrower uses: 2/4 skulls, blocked by 1 adjacent sneak, killed another adjacent sneak, 1w Q10.
1/4 skulls, blocked by 2 adjacent sneaks.


Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?
She's fun to play, taking potshots with her normal while rushing in for a big flamethrower while trying to avoid taking too much punishment. She's definitely similar to Kaemon, maybe a little too much so, since he has the same "long range normal, powerful SA up close" dynamic for the same point cost. Pyria is better against crowds, but I do see the argument that it isn't a huge difference.

She did also punch pretty hard this game, even with middling flamethrower rolls. Q10's occasional glass jaw certainly contributed to that though.

[flameslayer93]

Playtest: https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...4&postcount=49


Thoughts from the game.

Pyria: Not much to say here. She only took 2 turns, but thanks to her range (and the fairly smaller board), both of those turns meant she could attack (although I'm fairly certain her first attack did nothing). She was able to kill Finn on a lucky attack, but not much else. Definately was fun to try to counterdraft against her, and I suspect we're going to want at least 1 or 2 good antirange units in the game to counter all this ranged hero-ness.

[NecroBlade]

Putting this up while it's still fresh.

Me: Mimring, Tarn, Pyria, Ukushisa
vs MegaSilver: Q10, Isamu, Velkohr, Velnesh

Went for a 400-ish point "Master Set" style game with several units to test and no Common Squads.

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1 we both led with Squads, his Velnesh and my Ukushisa, both to get at targets we deemed threats. With initiative, on OM2 he was able to Shift through the wall on my side and get height on Pyria as well as tie up the UP with the remaining 2 Velnesh (awesome moves). Unfortunately his 5 dice did nothing to Pyria and the other two attacks similarly failed, despite one getting 3 skulls. UP in turn were able to clear the 2 Velnesh. Q10 moved into Machine Pistol range and killed a Ukushisa. Last 2 UP move toward Q10 but can't engage.

Round 2 Q10 tries Wrist Rockets but UP defense holds. They retaliate with 1 damage. Wrist Rockets again, same result. The Tarn Charge twice (one more would've engaged Q10 and Isamu) but can only attack the last Velnesh, who Blinks away, but still tying things up. Velkhor flies to height on a Tarn, positioning his Aura in the middle of the board, Tarn only rolls 1 shield to 2 skulls and dies (Aura didn't matter). Three remaining Tarn all get attacks this time, another Blink, an Isamu Vanish, and 1 to Velkhor.

Round 3 Ukushisa get initiative this time and do 2 to Q10. Both Wrist Rockets roll 1 skull and do no damage. Tarn attacks get another Blink, a dead Isamu, and another 1 to Velkhor. Q10 finally succeeds in getting both UP in one turn. On OM3 Pyria fails to roast the Velnesh and Velkhor fails to kill a Tarn.

Round 4 Q10 wants to use Machine Pistol on the Tarn since he'd have range to two, but opts for Wrist Rockets on just one target because of the 1 shield minimum on the Aura, and kills it. Tarn still can't get the Velnesh to stop Blinking. Q10 moves around to Pyria and hits for 4 with Wrist Rockets. Mimring takes a max-range Fireline across the board at Q10 (both Pyria and a Tarn in the way of other angles) but doesn't hit. Velkhor brings his Aura to the Pyria fight but can't hit her. Mimring kills Q10.

Round 5 Pyria gets a Twin Flamethrower shot that kills the Velnesh and does 2 to Velkhor, and Mimring finishes him on OM2 (Spirit did nothing since he was last figure in army).

Some thoughts after the game (mainly MegaSilver's): Shift/Blink had lots of good, fun options around/through the wall, made NecroBlade think of where to position figures that weren't actively involved in attacking. Velkhor's concept of reducing defense is good, but the execution is disappointing. The 1 shield minimum made the Aura ineffective, especially felt bad rolling 1-skull attacks knowing that it couldn't help. Velnesh and Ukushisa could probably swap points, the 5A/6D of the UP did a lot of work.

My thoughts for Pyria specifically: even though there weren't a lot of figures on the board, her Twin Flamethrowers made her look like a threat. When you put her on the battlefield and look at the possibilities you can see why. Even though she only had one real opportunity it paid off. She felt good and I'd like to see her against more numerous foes (and I do like that she's a one-power card).

[flameslayer93]

Currently we are sitting at 12 playtests for Pyria, looking at her from multiple perspectives and multiple build types. So far she has played quite swingily, hitting hard some games, and others becoming such a perceived threat that she gets targetted early. She also encourages counterplay, by giving your opponent a chance to set up in a way that prevents a lucky Twin Flamethrower attack from wrecking them.

All that considered, I do believe its about time to start considering Pyria as about "done" as she could be until its time for final Master Set review. More importantly, this would give the MS a "base" to work from that we can help balance the rest of the MS off of.

Anyone else got any inputs?

[Captain Stupendous]

Just wanted to jump in here quick to make a couple comments on theme before Pyria is finalized. Note that I wouldn’t push too strongly for either of these suggestions, they were both just a couple small ideas I had that I thought could make this design even better, but I think even with no further changes Pyria is in a great place right now.

First, I would like to see a more thematic name for Twin Flamethrower Special Attack. To me, this power name sounds too “technological” as a flamethrower suggests the use of a weapon rather than a spell.

My second suggestion is a bit more bold. How would people feel about retheming Pyria and renaming her as an evil version of Jorhdawn? I think that with the right bio this could be a great way to advance the overarching story of heroscape and tie this set further into the lore. It would also explain why an Elf Archmage would be fighting for Utgar, which isn’t an obvious fit otherwise.

It also helps that the official bio for Jorhdawn 1.0 already has a bit of a dark flavor to it, which helps sell the idea that this child could eventually turn evil as an adult. Official bio:

Spoiler Alert!

The sky swells with darkness, blotting out the noonday sun. The child convulses her small body surges forward and back, her spine arches, her eyes glaze white. The fire comes.

Orange and red bolts blaze across the blackened sky. The raining flame collides with tree and home in brilliant blooms. The fleeing Elves weep for their great loss. The trees were their eldest friends and allies. The girl child carries her father's gift, and curse. Chardris, flame wielder, one of The Eight, has sired a Ninth.

Thematically it could also open up the design space to the possibility of another new elf wizard to replace Jorhdawn after she left the Order of the Crimson Sigil, since traditionally there are only nine elf wizards.

The differences in clothing and pose can be explained by the change from good to evil and her switch of generals. I also think that the similarity in pose between Chandra and Chardris could actually help to sell the idea that Jorhdawn is Chardris’s daughter, as it would make sense that her casting style could become similar to his as she grows older.

[Pumpkin_King]

Would this be an alternate universe version, or a progression in story like Raelin/Drake ROTV/SOTM?

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

Would this be an alternate universe version, or a progression in story like Raelin/Drake ROTV/SOTM?

My guess is progression one, but Im not the one who's idea it is

[Astroking112]

It's worth noting that the next step after balance testing is actually compatibility testing with the rest of the set. I wouldn't be comfortable with moving Pyria past that point (or officially "finalizing" her) without having a bit more structure on the rest of the designs. This is particularly important because she's an Archmage, and several drafts for the illusion squad have involved synergy with Archmages. If that synergy proves problematic, then the easiest answer could be to change Pyria's class.

That said, looking over the tests I'd agree that she's pretty much ready for now. If Pod 1 wants to move her along to wait in Compatibility Testing, then I wouldn't bat an eye.

I don't like saying that this is Jorhdawn. HeroScape has done units again before, but that was essentially the protagonists of the game. Players from the first Master Set would still recognize Raelin and Drake and see how they had changed, while new players would still get introduced to the main characters. Jorhdawn, on the other hand, is a much less iconic unit and Pyria looks nothing like her. I think that saying that this is Jorhdawn who pulled a Jean Grey will be a headscratcher for existing fans and not really do much to impress new players, either. If we want her to be connected to Jorhdawn and Chardris, then we could always just say that she's Jorhdawn's mother or something and went crazy before getting summoned by Utgar.

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

Would this be an alternate universe version, or a progression in story like Raelin/Drake ROTV/SOTM?

I definitely imagined the change to be explained by a progression in story like Raelin/Drake/Hrognak. I really don't want to start dabbling in alternate universe versions; that way lies madness.

Personally I think that retheming her as Jorhdawn turned evil would be a cool angle for her and add dimension to her character and the overall story of the elf wizards, but I can understand if its too much of a stretch for some. I think it would depend on a good bio to really sell the concept, but I think if done well it could be a good direction.

[Scytale]

I don't mind the idea of progressing characters, but making this figure Jorhdawn feels forced to me. And I don't think that tying in to somewhat obscure existing character is the right direction for a "fresh and new" master set.