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  #6661  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 05:28 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
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Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Raelin. She is the biggest reason they can't switch unique heros.
But why can they switch with Unique Squads? Including those in the design makes Shadow Shift read clumsier than it should.
None of the unique squads in the game cause any serious issues. Raelin is the biggest worry. Also Samurai are fun to switch with, so I wanted to try and allow them. Is it really so bad to say "that isnt a unique hero"? It's straightforward and understandable.
I'm not a fan of the "is not a Unique Hero" wording at all. It doesn't sound like an official power to me (along with further complicating the text on an already wordy power), and Samurai-biased though I may be, I think that there should be a strong reason for the messier power text that I'm not seeing here. I know that it's a quibble, but I don't think that the current wording of Shadow Shift feels like an official card.

to review the Drow Assassin as it stands.
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  #6662  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 05:42 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Thematically it would make more sense to limit it to drow anyway. Drow being a faction as they are.

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  #6663  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 05:51 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'd personally like to see the restriction on Shadow Shift be like Drow or figures that follow Utgar or something themey. 'Common figure' could work since you could at least squint and see some theme there. 'Not a Unique Hero' is too gamey for me, it's just there to exclude Raelin and doesn't have any thematic bite to it IMO.

So as the design currently stands.


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  #6664  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 06:10 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

For the record, Warden 816 has a similar restriction:

I do realize that his is much more thematic, but the point is that restricting a specific type of figure is something Heroscape has officially done before. I could match the wording and just have a disclaimer at the end of power say "Shadow Shift cannot be used on Unique Heros" which would match Warden's wording exactly.
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  #6665  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 06:15 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

As Soundwarp suggested, I think a good way to restrict Raelin but still add some cool interactions with the Drow (and any other units the Assassin could pair with) would be just to restrict the Shadow Shift to only be used on Utgar figures. That should take care of Xundar interactions, allow for all drow to thematically use the ability AND some cool interactions with other Utgar units...all while leaving out Raelin.

Quote:
Shadow Shift
Before or after moving a Drow Assassin, you may choose a small or medium friendly Utgar figure within 4 spaces whose base is no more than 9 levels higher or lower than the base of the Drow Assassin. You may Switch the Drow Assassin with the chosen figure. Figures moved by Shadow Shift never take any leaving engagement attacks.
^this reads much cleaner and more thematically
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  #6666  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 06:16 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

To clarify, I have no issue with 'not a Unique Hero' mechanically. Wouldn't be opposed to it if it was somewhere it made thematic sense. But it completely lacks theme in this case to me, so that's why it got my down vote.


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  #6667  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 06:41 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I ask, why would a being that can teleport to different locations, by swapping places with other beings of similar size, decide not to swap with Ullar Elves, when they can swap with Utgar Elves just fine? I get that it reads more thematic on paper, but I don't think it actually makes sense from the view point of an Assassin. "Ah, I could swap with that Elf over there, and attack that high priority enemy hero, which would fulfill my role as an assassin, but they are a green elf, and I only swap with red elves, so I'm never going to even consider it." <- doesn't make sense to me personally.

I understand the desire for Utgar exclusivity. The original design was exclusive to Drow figures, and that was because it was a form of Bonding back then. When I reworked the Assassin, my approach was the to make the Assassin a more general design, that wasn't restricted to the Drow. I now see Shadow Shift as a utility swapping power, like Strategic Switch on the Warforged. It would be broken to use on enemy figures, or I'd let you swap with opponents figures too. It gets the Assassin around the map in a cool way, and I no longer want it to be a faction locked power.




As for "choose a small or medium friendly Utagar figure within 4 spaces" sounding cleaner,

Quote:
Shadow Shift
Before or after moving a Drow Assassin, you may choose a small or medium friendly figure within 4 spaces whose base is no more than 9 levels higher or lower than the base of the Drow Assassin. You may Switch the Drow Assassin with the chosen figure. Figures moved by Shadow Shift never take any leaving engagement attacks. Shadow Shift cannot be used on Unique Heros.
Also sounds cleaner.
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  #6668  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 07:15 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

While I generally prefer units that can function without having to be tied too aggressively into a tight synergy web, I donít agree with the implementation here. For starters, I donít like what Drow Assassinate allows you to do with a single 25 point figure. You can shadow shift before or after moving, move normally, attack, and then do it all again from whatever position your assassin ended their first turn in. Whatever restrictions you put on it, thatís a lot of positioning power backed up by decent offense. It also doesnít feel particularly thematic. I read the Assassinate power as the Assassin using an opening created by another drow unit to act. With the current wording, it allows the Assassin to create their own opening, all while sprinting and shifting across the whole map.

If you want this design to work as generalist 25 point filler, then before/after moving shadow shift combined with this free double turn is too much flexibility (not to mention strict improvements on existing, more limited powers) to offer. Either limit the mechanics of the powers, or limit what armies you can play them in. Iíd like to see this unit as a focused and tight assassin design for the drow than have it try to be all things to all builds, but if it is going to be a more generalist figure then the abilities need to be handled with a bit more finesse.

to review the Drow Assassin.
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  #6669  
Old November 3rd, 2019, 07:18 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Welp. That's enough to kill it. Drow Assassin will see you in another year and a half.
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  #6670  
Old November 4th, 2019, 12:13 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

For clarification, I could be sold on "This power does not work on Unique Heroes" or some similar mechanic, but I think that it would need to have a strong reason to work that way instead of something more straightforward. Switching any Unique Squads does not feel like enough justification here to me, especially when other options such as Commons, Drow, or Utgar-only feel like they would work just as well thematically.

I'd likely be willing to review the Drow Assassin if that mechanic is cleaned up, so I wouldn't be too discouraged on that front (though I of course am only one of the judges).
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  #6671  
Old November 4th, 2019, 10:54 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Drow Assassin has been removed at the submitter's request.

I don't hate the "not a Unique Hero" bit, but it does come off as "trying too hard." Trying to get something to synergize with as much as you want can be unwieldy, and sometimes you just have to make some cuts and do what's best for the design, not what you want the most.

I see the Warden 816 restriction is completely different. I don't fully understand why he can't chop small figures, but that's exactly and the only theme of the power. It's not something shoehorned to avoid certain meta.

For the record, I really dislike powers that effectively allow a unit to bond with all sorts of things. In general I feel that's a cheesy way to force value on a unit by taking away the order marker cost. Drow Assassinate is better than most because of the once-per-round restriction and the theme. Still, I would be much happier with an "instead of taking a turn" power instead of a bonus turn one, which carries the same theme, avoids many corner cases, and would be much easier to balance.
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  #6672  
Old November 4th, 2019, 01:41 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion


Well met!

I'm sorry that this design hasn't evolved as you would like, Leaf.

I suggest:

NAME = DROW ASSASSIN
GENERAL = UTGAR
PLANET = TORIL
SPECIES = DROW
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = ASSASSIN
PERSONALITY = TRICKY
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

1 LIFE
6 MOVE
1 RANGE
4 ATTACK
4 DEFENSE


?? POINTS

Shadow Shift
Before or after moving a Drow Assassin, you may choose a small or medium Drow figure within 4 spaces whose base is no more than 6 levels higher or lower than the base of the Drow Assassin. You may Switch the Drow Assassin with the chosen figure. Figures moved by Shadow Shift never take any leaving engagement attacks.

Poison Weapons
Each time a Drow Assassin attacks a small, medium, or large Hero with a normal attack or a leaving engagement attack and inflicts at least 1 wound, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-11, nothing happens. If you roll a 12 or higher, add 1 additional wound to the defending figure.

Hide in Darkness
If a Drow Assassin is attacked with a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If that Drow Assassin is on a dungeon space, add 3 to your die roll. If it is on a shadow space, add 6 to your die roll. If you roll a 1-15, roll defense dice normally. If you roll a 16 or higher, ignore all damage that would have been inflicted by the attack.


Assassin Bonding
After revealing an order marker on a
Drow Assassin Army Card, before taking that Drow Assassin's turn, you may take a turn with one other Drow Assassin you control.





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