Justice League Design *Brainstorming*

[Tornado]

Perhaps give Cyborg a JL Communicator also with different restrictions on who he can change class-wise?

[japes]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Personally, I'd go with a bit more consistency with the powers and a bit more of a "less is more" approach to how many cards get recruiting powers.

I like the Utility Glyph idea a lot and it sort of makes me realize that Cyborg is an odd thematic fit for a recruitment power anyway. Unlike Martian Manhunter and Batman, Cyborg seems like a guy who'd be recruited rather than doing the recruiting. Also, the actual recruitment text is some of the least exciting text on any of the cards, because it all gets resolved at the start of the game. I think we can get away with having it on just two cards, so long as we open both those cards up enough. Here's what I'm thinking:

This way you have to use Cyborg with Batman 2.0 or Martian Manhunter 2.0 to use him to his fullest, but I think that's OK, and it condenses the cards that do the recruiting while, between the two of them, allowing for plenty enough recruiting to get in most of the iconic JLers.

I'll be honest...Cyborg is the only issue I have really had with this whole thing. I love the coordinated attack and/or the boom tube thing but I like them as JL boosts. I never like Cyborg as a hub though. I like how you have it with Bats and MM. You can recruit with either of those two but get different boost if you take one of them.

This would give you a quicker turn around to getting this on the table...MM and a Utility Glyph and then Cyborg and whoever can come later. With either MM or the Glyph giving you an instant JL team using all the rest from current cards and with the knowledge of future 2.0 figures coming down the line.

[Yodaking]

I didn't notice the communicator being expanded to include the full line up. Not sure how I feel about that, I guess it could work. Cyborg is a bit of a tech guy so I could see him also having starting with a communicator.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

As far as I know Cyborg & MM are never in the same team at any point so I don't get real excited by any system that forces you to draft them together every single time you want to play the JL. I'd rather see a system where both could be the hubs of different JL line-ups or played together. If the word 'recruiter' is the hang up, use a different word. The Batman utility Glyph does not make him a 'recruiter' is only has him sharing some of his technology and he does not share with just anyone.

The version I'm suggesting wouldn't force that. You could easily draft Cyborg with Batman 2.0 instead.

The version of Batman's utility glyph that I'm suggesting would make him a recruiter. Batman makes more thematic sense to me as a recruiter than Cyborg, and I think it's cleaner to have only two recruiters rather than three. This is all I'm saying. It's not a deal-breaker to me, but I think being a bit more streamlined is better.

I think that any version that recruits should be able to just recruit the same way, though. Recruiting in a whole bunch of different ways just feels haphazard and inconsistent to me. The text on Martian Manhunter works well, IMO. Let's stick with it.

Edit: Sorry about that! Got massively 'd trying to figure out which issues of Justice League comics Cyborg and Martian Manhunter each were in. One thing - are they both currently in the Justice League? Since Cyborg has only been in since around 2006 or so (might be later) seems like there's still plenty of opportunity for the two to be on the team together in the future.

[laughing matter]

Cyborg is in the current lineup. Martian Manhunter is not

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I think that any version that recruits should be able to just recruit the same way, though. Recruiting in a whole bunch of different ways just feels haphazard and inconsistent to me. The text on Martian Manhunter works well, IMO. Let's stick with it.

Let's stick with what we have then. Martian Manhunter recruiting 8 classes, Cyborg recruiting 3, and Batman recruiting 1(and himself). Was anyone liking the idea of Batman recruiting Valiant instead of Champion, in order to get 3 more in the mix, while repeating the main champions? Doctor Fate is a member just providing support. I say we find 1 more to include in all of this (3 total new designs, 1 glyph), and we call it good.

Who would offer some great synergy? I feel like most of the big ones are already great as is, especially the ones based on d20 powers.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, I'm having trouble understanding your post as a response to mine. I was arguing for having only two hubs instead of three (Batman and Martian Manhunter, but no Cyborg), and for having each hub recruit the full 8 classes. I think three recruitment powers that are each so different in who you can recruit feels inconsistent and a tad confusing.

If you disagree, that's cool! But I'd love to at least know why.

[japes]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Hmm, I'm having trouble understanding your post as a response to mine. I was arguing for having only two hubs instead of three (Batman and Martian Manhunter, but no Cyborg), and for having each hub recruit the full 8 classes. I think three recruitment powers that are each so different in who you can recruit feels inconsistent and a tad confusing.

If you disagree, that's cool! But I'd love to at least know why.

I'm for the Two hub approach and letting Cyborg 2 be a JL support unit and not a hub.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Hmm, I'm having trouble understanding your post as a response to mine. I was arguing for having only two hubs instead of three (Batman and Martian Manhunter, but no Cyborg), and for having each hub recruit the full 8 classes. I think three recruitment powers that are each so different in who you can recruit feels inconsistent and a tad confusing.

If you disagree, that's cool! But I'd love to at least know why.

How about this?
Martian Manhunter II:

JUSTICE LEAGUE FOUNDER
At the start of the game, you may choose Unique Heroes, including up to one Champion, one Vigilante, one Officer, one Scientist, one Warrior, one King, one Magician, and one Archer in your Army. For this game, each chosen Hero's Class is League Member instead of what is listed on that Hero's Army Card.

Batman II Utility Glyph:

GLYPH OF UTILITY: JUSTICE LEAGUE COMMUNICATOR
At the start of the game, you may choose Unique Heroes including up to one Champion, one Warrior, one Scientist, one Officer, one Recluse, one Guardian, one Refugee, and one Savant in your Army. For this game, each chosen Hero's Class, as well as this figure's class, is League Member instead of what is listed on that Hero's Army Card. At the beginning of your turn, you may move 1 unrevealed Order Marker from the card of a League Member you control onto any other League Member card you control.

New options opened up exclusive to Batman(Justice League in bold):

Recluse
Cloak, Nightcrawler, Obsidian

Guardian
Heimdall, Iron Man Hulkbuster, Zauriel

Refugee
Supergirl

Savant
Mister Terrific

These would be offered instead of one Vigilante, King, Magician, and Archer. The reasoning is due to these classes mostly containing only 1 Justice League member desired, or even only 1 option available, so it's not necessary to have wasted repeats between him and MM. By having 4 different ones, he brings in 4 new members. The ones with Martian Manhunter are more d20 beneficial(Green Arrow, Aquaman I, and Zatanna), whereas Batman can get Obsidian who throws down Shadow, as well as Mister Terrific who would benefit most from his Order Marker flexibility.

[Yodaking]

The general idea of having Batman & MM as the two hubs with Cyborg 2.0 just being a support guy along with Fate is okay with me. The only thing that might be a bit off is that Batman isn't the only one that uses the utility glyphs. Perhaps if we are going to go with Batman as a hub, he should just get a 3.0 card that works as a hub. MM can still recruit Batman I or II and boost their d20 rolls.

Oh, and if Cyborg powers are going to be so closely ties to League Members, then I'd still let him convert one other figure into a League Member so he could be played without Batman or MM. I know him and beast Boy are the best of friends in the Teen Titian cartoon, does he have a similar relationship with anyone from the JL?

[IAmBatman]

Hugely solid point on other figures using the Utility Glyphs, Yoda. Yeah, Red Robin as Justice League hub feels a bit off, right?

That said, now I'm really excited about the idea of going all in on a Batman 3.0 design. I think the idea's been talked about enough in the public design post that if we do well with him it'll be a popular choice in voting for public designs. I'm all for that!

Would it be terribly weird for Cyborg to be able to convert a Titan? Or is he the only Titan who really made the transition?

[Flame Gryphon]

Wally West and Wonder Girl also made the transition, off the top of my head. Superboy did as well, I believe.