Stingers... the new 4th Mass?

[aKoolKukumber]

As we all know, the 4th Mass are widely used(almost as much as Q9). They are only 70 pts., to get a squad of 4 that can have 3 attack and 3 defense. But, the Stingers, are only 3, but have a natural 3 attack and 3 def. They might have less range, but they are large, and in charge. They are used widely(more than the 4th Mass, and even maybe Q9). My question to you is, are the Stingers the new 4th Mass?

[gamjuven]

I personally never liked using the 4th mass. They are very good mind you, but I just didn't like sitting and waiting most of the time. Bad sportsmanship IMO. I love the stingers, they are awesome. I don't think they will replace the 4th mass as they are different units with much different strategies. But in terms of personal preference I will choose the stingers over the 4th mass anyday.

[rdhight]

My experience is that the 4th Mass are a smidge better in and of themselves, but that the Stingers' lack of army-building limitations balances them out. They're both very powerful squads that can really put you to the test. The differences between them in power level are quite small, but the differences in play style are considerable. Personally, I play both about equally but prefer range 7 squads the most of all.

[Sweetcurse]

Stingers are better hero killers.

[Clarissimus]

I'd say they are about even. The 4th Mass have more potential power once they are in their position, but the Stingers can rush forward without losing that 3rd attack die and still possibly getting a 4th.

[jcb231]

I think that the 4th Mass are safer (and thus perhaps easier) to play, whilst the Stingers are for the risk taker and are a bit more difficult to field effectively. Both are good picks though. In a pinch, I suppose it might not be a bad move to draft them both and send the Stingers out first.

[Pumpkin_King]

I've used the 4th Mass maybe three times, and I didn't see what the fuss was about. My personal style of play left me itching to take height, or take that glyph, but I also wanted to blast away at rapidly-encroaching baddies. Stingers, for me, are the much better choice. That, with my usual luck of never getting 1-4 in a normally sized game, have led to many victories.

[Sweetcurse]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

I've used the 4th Mass maybe three times, and I didn't see what the fuss was about. My personal style of play left me itching to take height, or take that glyph, but I also wanted to blast away at rapidly-encroaching baddies. Stingers, for me, are the much better choice. That, with my usual luck of never getting 1-4 in a normally sized game, have led to many victories.

Hate ta' break it to ya', but you're missing the point. There is a reason the 4th are on top of all lists, but the fact that you haven't discovered it doesn't dimish them. Simply put, they are a 70 point common squad with potential 4 attacks of 4 dice and 4 defense. That is scary.

Stingers have a bit more versatility, but the 4th are still a force.

[NFCfan]

i think the stingers are easier to use than the 4th Mass. The Mass take more planning so that you can avoid moving to get WTF as often as possible

[Gidian]

Originally Posted by gamjuven

I personally never liked using the 4th mass. They are very good mind you, but I just didn't like sitting and waiting most of the time. Bad sportsmanship IMO.

You don´t have to sit and wait - it depends on how you play them. I like playing the 4th with Sir Gilbert and the Knights of Weston. The first 1 or 2 rounds, I use the Knights. Their bonding gives Sir Gilbert a turn and he could move the 4th. In this way you can bring the 4th in a good position without wasting order markers, while you knights move forward as well, covering the 4th.

The Stingers are good as well and of course, they are the best ranged squad that follows Utgar. But they have only 3 attacks. When you have to move your ranged units quite a lot during a game, the Stingers might be more effeciant than the 4th, but I normally play 12 to 16 linesmen, so I don´t have to move them very often.
So personally I do prefer the 4th. But because of our way of playing (good vs. evil) I have to draft the Stingers when playing evil. They are ok as well.


Greetings from Germany

Gidian

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Sweetcurse

Stingers are better hero killers.

Yeah, I think that's basically it. The 4th Mass are the best common squad for killing other squads in the game. The Krav are the best unique one. The Stingers are certainly pretty good at killing squads, and pretty good at killing heroes as well. That 5 range and move can be pretty ponderous at times though.

[gamjuven]

Gidian - I understand that you don't have to keep them locked in your starting zone, and the best players that use them don't, but their whole goodness comes from just sitting and shooting. It's called "wait then fire". Yes Gilbert is a great person to move the 4th mass without them losing their special ability, but even if you move them somewhere, your ultimate goal is to get them to a place where they can just camp out, not move, and kill everything. That's just not my style of play. I'm always moving and constantly changing my position getting height, engaging figures, etc.

I also like how you can have the stingers with any kind of army and not have the restrictions of finding units that are valiant. Yes you can have the 4th mass without the valiant bonus but they are much less effective I've found.

Perhaps my wording was a little strong. The "unsportsmanship" comment came off as being too much of an insult. It was meant as a bash against the 4th mass, not to players themselves. I just dislike playing against the 4th mass where I am forced to move forward. Hopefully I would have a unit that had great range or more points on the table as to force the 4th mass to move, but that doesn't always happen.

And on a related note it is very annoying to me when an opponent just shows his order marker and does nothing (ie doesn't move and if your units are out of his range he doesn't do anything). And unfortunately this can happen a lot while playing with the 4th mass, especially when the game is close. They figure they don't want to move anywhere and think their opponent should move to them (and why not, it's in their best interest and their units are much better that way). But it makes for a sour end to a game IMO. Sorry if this offends anyone.