Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > C3V and SoV Customs
C3V and SoV Customs A place for C3V and SoV customs


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #25  
Old May 1st, 2015, 04:18 PM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: *
Posts: 1,512
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
JaB, can you use an "after moving" power without moving? Yes, you can. Same story here.
I disagree. The rationale that has consistently been given for why "after moving" works is because you can technically move 0. Well, you can't "attack 0," meaning you can't "technically attack without actually attacking."

The other reason to avoid this kind of wording is that it is counter-intuitive. I will repeat the examples I gave before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
why couldn't you use after attacking powers without attacking?
Why couldn't you use "after revealing an order marker" powers without revealing an order marker?

Why couldn't you use "after rolling defense dice" powers without rolling defense dice?

Why couldn't you use "after taking a turn" powers without taking a turn?
If there was some reason it was necessary to use this wording, then we would have to live with the illogic of it and rely on a rules patch. But it's not necessary. There are any number of other ways to word it that don't make it sound like you literally have to attack. From a simple reading comprension standpoint, "after attacking with a Zettian Deathwing" contains a very clear requirement to attack. There may very well be other rules that can be massaged around to try to counter-act the simple, straightforward reading of the text (and indeed there is an unfortunate ruling about Toxic Skin that I'm sure will be used as an argument for widening the footprint of the counter-intuitivity). But surely we can all agree that simply writing a text to say what it means is always better than relying on patch rulings designed to fix early cards that were poorly written, yes?

And frankly, I'm in favor of it actually requiring the attack. I hope the design committee decides that that should be the correct gameplay. Because, the other thing that nobody has really brought up is that this power needs to prevent the player from hyping out with units that were not even part of the activation of the power. In other words, if you can hype out a ZD that didn't move and didn't attack, does this mean you can move ZD figures #1 and #2, then hype out with ZDs #3 through #8? Clearly that is not the intent, and the most elegant way to avoid that whole mess is to simply requiring moving, attacking, or both as a prerequisite to using the effect. Even Kee-Mo-Shi's TS ruling doesn't really help here, because she's a hero and this is a squad. The dynamics are more complex.

Yeah, the "easy out" here is to say "yay, KMS makes it all legal ... done!" But that's not the answer that makes things understandable for a wide audience, nor is it good design practice. It's easier, but it's not better.

I hope the committee will not feel enslaved to earlier wording templates, and elects to simply write the clearest representation of the intended gameplay that they can. How is that not in everyone's best interest?


Good traders: Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74, Clipper423, Oh Freek,
Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112, itsbuzzi & more on my trade list

Last edited by Just_a_Bill; May 4th, 2015 at 06:49 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old May 1st, 2015, 04:34 PM
TheAverageFan's Avatar
TheAverageFan TheAverageFan is offline
Competitive Fan Fiction Champion
 
Join Date: December 17, 2009
Location: USA - OH - West Chester
Posts: 2,576
Images: 293
TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy View Post
Cough*Sonya*cough.
Yeah, yeah I know.. it's just... I mean... Eternal Strength and Eternal Heartbreak could've easily been a single power. That's just me! I don't like Sonya! Don't like her! She's a phony and a 45-point patch to Cyprien!

Again, personal gripe. Deathwings are fine.

~TAF

TheAverageFan is Emirroon...
in THE BLUE CAVE

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old May 1st, 2015, 05:23 PM
capsocrates's Avatar
capsocrates capsocrates is offline
My six-year-old sister-in-law calls the shots
 
Join Date: October 6, 2010
Location: USA - CO - Denver area
Posts: 13,464
Images: 11
capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
And frankly, I'm in favor of it actually requiring the attack. I hope the design committee decides that that should be the correct gameplay.
That is not the correct gameplay. The two Zettian Deathwings that were activated can use Hyper Speed Burst regardless of whether they attacked or not. These buggers are fast.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

--

A Child of the Risen Lord
--
Oklahoma HS Events - Colorado HS Events
Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV
Maps Customs Trades
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old May 1st, 2015, 06:16 PM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: *
Posts: 1,512
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
That is not the correct gameplay. The two Zettian Deathwings that were activated can use Hyper Speed Burst regardless of whether they attacked or not. These buggers are fast.
Okay, thanks for that clarification. I think this is the first confirmation I've heard of the design intent. That being the case, I revise my suggestions:
DETONATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
A Zettian Deathwing that moved but did not attack normally may use Detonation Special Attack. Any figures adjacent to the attacking Zettian Deathwing are affected by Detonation Special Attack. Destroy the attacking Zettian Deathwing to roll 5 attack dice once for all affected figures, even if all Deathwings have been destroyed. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

HYPER SPEED BURST 3
After moving and/or attacking with a up to two Zettian Deathwings, that those Deathwings may move up to an additional 3 spaces each.
[or]
After moving and/or attacking with a squad of Zettian Deathwings, that those Deathwings may move up to an additional 3 spaces each.
These proposed HSB3 texts are new, and probably the cleanest proposals I've come up with. For reference, here are my two previous attempts, which I now withdraw because they're a bit clunky:
Quote:
Just before Zettian Deathwings end their turn normally, each Zettian Deathwing that moved and/or attacked may move up to 3 spaces.
[or]
After all Zettian Deathwings finish moving normally and attacking, each Zettian Deathwing that moved and/or attacked may move up to 3 spaces.
(Aside: Now here's something quite unexpected ... I searched the rulebook for official terminology on "activating" or "choosing" which members of a squad will take the squad's turn, to see if there was a rule or at least a label that could be leveraged here. Can you believe that the rulebooks do not actually say anything about which of your six Stingers or your nine Deepwyrm Drow can move and attack when you reveal an order marker on one of their cards? I searched every instance of the word "squad" in the BftU PDF, and the rules actually kinda leave the impression that you get to move and attack with all of them! Nowhere could I find anything about picking a number of figures to activate based on the number shown in the hit zone, nor any discussion about whether you can mix and match from one unit of the squad to another. All they ever say is "any or all figures on your chosen Army Card," or "any figure(s) on your chosen Army Card within Range," which (absent any other statements) would have to mean either all matching figures on the battlefield, or the exact three/four individual figures that are associated with the specific card that has the OM — both of which are, of course, wrong. In all these years I never noticed that until now. What a bizarre omission.)


Good traders: Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74, Clipper423, Oh Freek,
Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112, itsbuzzi & more on my trade list

Last edited by Just_a_Bill; May 4th, 2015 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Using the card image instead of the OP text; I just realized the OP text is out of date.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old May 1st, 2015, 10:15 PM
capsocrates's Avatar
capsocrates capsocrates is offline
My six-year-old sister-in-law calls the shots
 
Join Date: October 6, 2010
Location: USA - CO - Denver area
Posts: 13,464
Images: 11
capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth capsocrates is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Thanks for the suggestion JaB.

As Xotli said, the C3V will release an R&C, or an Errata, or whatever else might be necessary, once they have discussed it internally and reached a conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xotli View Post
Just to let you know: your C3V Rules Team is carefully considering the points everyone brought up here. We'll let you know as soon as we have an answer for you.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

--

A Child of the Risen Lord
--
Oklahoma HS Events - Colorado HS Events
Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV
Maps Customs Trades
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 03:38 AM
TREX's Avatar
TREX TREX is offline
"like" happy
 
Join Date: February 24, 2010
Location: USA- ID- PRESTON
Posts: 7,135
TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun TREX is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

These guys must be fun, can't find them in all my usual online game stores.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 06:12 PM
Cyber Controler's Avatar
Cyber Controler Cyber Controler is offline
 
Join Date: February 12, 2013
Location: United states - North Dakota - Bismarck
Posts: 105
Images: 1
Cyber Controler knows what's in an order marker Cyber Controler knows what's in an order marker
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by TREX View Post
These guys must be fun, can't find them in all my usual online game stores.
http://white-tower-miniatures.auctiv...m/Default.aspx and http://www.gamehollow.com/catalog/ have a bunch in stock
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 11:57 PM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: *
Posts: 1,512
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

FYI, when using a site's search function, you may need to search for both Genosian and Geonosian. The correct spelling is with the "o," and some online retailers like Troll and Toad get it right, but others such as CoolStuffInc, Miniature Market, and the OP in this thread (which probably copied it from one of those retailers) misspell it as Genosian. So I recommend always checking for both.

Genosian on CoolStuffInc $0.75, but out of stock as of this writing
Genosian on Miniature Market $1.05 & $0.95, but only 1 left as of this writing
Geonosian on Troll and Toad $0.79 & $0.89, but out of stock as of this writing
Geonosian on Game Hollow $1.49, 51 in stock as of this writing
White Tower is not listing them at all.


Good traders: Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74, Clipper423, Oh Freek,
Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112, itsbuzzi & more on my trade list
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old May 3rd, 2015, 10:08 PM
Cyber Controler's Avatar
Cyber Controler Cyber Controler is offline
 
Join Date: February 12, 2013
Location: United states - North Dakota - Bismarck
Posts: 105
Images: 1
Cyber Controler knows what's in an order marker Cyber Controler knows what's in an order marker
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
FYI, when using a site's search function, you may need to search for both Genosian and Geonosian. The correct spelling is with the "o," and some online retailers like Troll and Toad get it right, but others such as CoolStuffInc, Miniature Market, and the OP in this thread (which probably copied it from one of those retailers) misspell it as Genosian. So I recommend always checking for both.

Genosian on CoolStuffInc $0.75, but out of stock as of this writing
Genosian on Miniature Market $1.05 & $0.95, but only 1 left as of this writing
Geonosian on Troll and Toad $0.79 & $0.89, but out of stock as of this writing
Geonosian on Game Hollow $1.49, 51 in stock as of this writing
White Tower is not listing them at all.
http://white-tower-miniatures.auctiv...-P2665474.aspx 28 @ $1.09 at white tower. not sure what is up with their search function. I Google searched for them and that's how I found it
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old May 4th, 2015, 01:13 AM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: *
Posts: 1,512
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Controler View Post
http://white-tower-miniatures.auctiv...-P2665474.aspx 28 @ $1.09 at white tower. not sure what is up with their search function. I Google searched for them and that's how I found it
It's not just their search, but all of their browse navigation as well.

I'm not sure I would have full confidence that those are purchasable items. For example, click the navigational category link for that item (Home > Star Wars Miniatures > Starship Battles) and it goes to a page with 0 items. In my experience with online retail, sometimes the way they "hide" unavailable product can be circumvented if you (or Google) knows the item ID; you can go directly to the item page, but it doesn't mean the item is actually available. In other words, the quantity listed might be phantom, and the retailer could be relying on the lack of navigation/search visibility to keep the product hidden.

So if anyone tries this, please let us know if they actually ship you the product.


Good traders: Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74, Clipper423, Oh Freek,
Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112, itsbuzzi & more on my trade list
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old May 4th, 2015, 06:42 PM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: *
Posts: 1,512
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed that the OP text is out of sync with the card image. I've revised my last suggestion post to use the (apparently) later language from the card image.


Good traders: Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74, Clipper423, Oh Freek,
Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112, itsbuzzi & more on my trade list
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old May 9th, 2015, 05:17 PM
Spuke Boy's Avatar
Spuke Boy Spuke Boy is offline
 
Join Date: March 26, 2013
Location: Germany - Bavaria
Posts: 135
Spuke Boy rolls all skulls baby! Spuke Boy rolls all skulls baby! Spuke Boy rolls all skulls baby! Spuke Boy rolls all skulls baby! Spuke Boy rolls all skulls baby! Spuke Boy rolls all skulls baby!
Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

@Dysole
They also benefit from Torin's Evil Eye Protection.

Search for any Heroscape cards and create armies.
Create, save and search your own custom cards.
Check out HACCS (Heroscape Army Creator and Card Searcher)!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > C3V and SoV Customs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Book of Zettian Infantry dok C3V and SoV Customs 86 May 1st, 2019 12:20 PM
The Book of Zettian Guards dnutt99 Official Units 60 November 18th, 2018 05:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:57 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.