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  #685  
Old January 2nd, 2019, 06:04 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Thanks for the input, caps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Valiant Hero Bonding is a bold move. There are a lot of Valiant heroes, from Charos to Sam Brown. Bonding with a ranged hero *and* a number of beatsticks is something few squads get to do. Between Intimidating and Bull-Wark increasing their survivability quite a bit and such potent bonding options I would imagine you have the Minoan Guard somewhat underpriced.
I had changed it to Valiant Hero who follows Jandar (and then posted the unedited card) in order to narrow down from exactly what you were saying. I wanted to give them more than just one minotaur hero to bond with. So, one possible solution would be to change Brorok's Class and/or Personality and go that route to narrow down the Guards bonding without totally limiting the options.
I had hoped that them being a Unique Squad would help lower their cost, but I see your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Do you want to have so many powers that make attackers or defenders roll more or less dice packed on to just two cards? I like Brorok but I ultimately feel that you could present a more thematic (and possibly simpler) card for the Minoan Guard. I would start by just dropping Bull-Wark altogether.

I wouldn't call that a "bonding chain," really. I also don't think it will turn any heads in a negative way unless you try to submit them to the SoV (and I imagine the figure availability is not there).
I wasn't sure what to call it other than bonding chain. You can reveal an OM on the Guards, take a turn with Brorok with the Bonding, reveal the "X" OM on him, move the Guards with Sound the Charge, then take the turn with the Guards. Bonding chain was the closest thing I could think of.

I hadn't planned on an SoV submission. There are more than plenty fantasy units in their pipeline for consideration already (mostly because as far as pre-painted minis go that is almost all that is out there) that I probably won't submit anything [else] unless it is a historical unit.

I can rework the Minoan Guards. The biggest struggle with these guys is giving them some staying power as a Unique Squad, portraying the power of an elite group of minotuar warrior beatsticks, and keeping them from being overpowered.

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I am not 100% sure what you mean for Bull Headed to do, but if you mean what I think you do, you might perhaps borrow wording from the VC's Varkaanan Swiftfangs.
For Bull Headed I was envisioning a fighter who is always the first to charge into battle and take on impossible odds in acts of arrogant bravery.

I struggled with the wording because I wanted Brorok to be able to have the bonus of the revealed OM from the beginning of the round if he started off engaged with 2 or more opponent's figures. It it triggers when he reveals the OM on his turn, if it is a multi-player game it might be likely he goes without the OM bonus for most of the beginning of the round. However, if there is no way to word that "idea" clearly I may go with the Swiftfangs wording (I don't know if you realize how ironic it is that you would direct me to them )

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
For Sound the Charge, why not wording closer to Siege and Evar Scarcarver "After taking a turn with Brorok you may reveal the 'X' Order Marker on Brork's army card to..."
Thanks for pointing me there.

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Intimidating functions similarly to the Goblin Cutters's Mob Attack, but the wording is again pretty different. On the other hand, aping their wording could be tricky since Intimidating takes place when attacking AND when defending.
I had considered making Intimidating work only when the Guard attacks so that would solve that issue. I could nick the Cutter's wording.

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Bull-Wark also seems very similar to the Roman Legionnaires's Shield Wall (minus the restriction, of course) but the wording is fairly different.
Using the word "other" in Bull-Wark would make it much less clunky.

Thanks again for all the input!
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  #686  
Old January 2nd, 2019, 06:14 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

I overlooked that the Minoan Guards are Unique! That does help quite a bit with their power level then. It feels weird to put bonding on a Unique Squad, but that could be just me.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #687  
Old January 2nd, 2019, 07:22 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I overlooked that the Minoan Guards are Unique! That does help quite a bit with their power level then. It feels weird to put bonding on a Unique Squad, but that could be just me.
I thought maybe that was the case. I often do that myself when looking at squads. That does not change the validity of a lot of your input, however.

For the Guards:
I am going to change Intimidating to trigger only when attacking and Bull-Wark to trigger only when defending. I am going to go with the wording from the official cards to clear up any clunkiness.

For Brorok, perhaps...
Quote:
Bull Headed
After placing Order Markers and before rolling for initiative, you may reveal the number 1 Order Marker on this card to activate Bull Headed for the duration of the round. When Bull Headed is active, if Brorok is engaged with 2 or more opponent's figures add 1 to his Attack and Defense Values.
And...
Quote:
Sound the Charge
After taking a turn with Brorok you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card. If you do you may move up to 3 Minotaurs you control up to 4 spaces each. Figures moved with Sound the Charge must end their movement within 4 clear sight spaces of Brorok. Any figures who are engaged when moved with Sound the Charge will take any leaving engagement attacks.
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  #688  
Old January 2nd, 2019, 07:30 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

I like the idea of a unique squad that bonds with a unique hero. Doesn't seem odd or out of place to me and if no one has done that before with a custom then it's just breaking new ground which is exciting after all these years. I would prefer to see it structured in such a way that the Unique Squad of Minotaurs only bonded with Unique Hero Minotaurs though rather then leaving it more open to bonding with random non-Minotaur heroes. It sells the theme of a Unique faction of Minotaurs better if they don't also bond with say a human.

I also like the visual element of the Horn blowing charge. You reveal OM1 on the heroes card to boost his stats without actually taking a turn and it looks like he's holding back his troops while watching the opponent advance. Then you reveal OM2 on the troops to bond with the Hero, he charges out 6 spaces and blows the horn to signal the charge (if the opponent moves fast enough he might get in an attack too but generally he's still going to be out of melee range), the squad charges forward 6 spaces, then the squad takes their normal turn and charges another 6 spaces past the hero to engage and attack the opponents front lines. On OM3 the hero then moves in and joins the fray. Has a nice visual element to it for the grouping.

I only question the giving up of OM1 for a stat boost after the first round of the game. Once engaged in battle, not taking a turn on OM1 is a huge loss and your squad members could all be dead by the time you get around to revealing OM2, which means you can't bond with your boosted up hero. I'd first consider putting the OM reveal required for bonding with the squad on the hero rather then the squad since the hero had more life & defense as well as other Hero protections over squad figures. I'd also drop the engaged with two figures requirement on the +1/+1 stat bonus, since you are giving up one of your player turns it should always be on and not something your opponent can turn off by taking a LEA.

Then on the squad, I'd consider dropping the def. power and just bumping up the base def. to 4. With them being a 3 figure unique squad, you would want them to have a better chance of sticking around. If they were a common squad, then that defense power with a base defense of 3 would make a lot of sense. Without the high multiples of figures that come with multiple common squads drafted though, they can't afford to have that power dictating their figure placement in an effort to try and stay alive.
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  #689  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 12:50 AM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I like the idea of a unique squad that bonds with a unique hero. Doesn't seem odd or out of place to me and if no one has done that before with a custom then it's just breaking new ground which is exciting after all these years. I would prefer to see it structured in such a way that the Unique Squad of Minotaurs only bonded with Unique Hero Minotaurs though rather then leaving it more open to bonding with random non-Minotaur heroes. It sells the theme of a Unique faction of Minotaurs better if they don't also bond with say a human.
Good point. I will be considering that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I also like the visual element of the Horn blowing charge. You reveal OM1 on the heroes card to boost his stats without actually taking a turn and it looks like he's holding back his troops while watching the opponent advance. Then you reveal OM2 on the troops to bond with the Hero, he charges out 6 spaces and blows the horn to signal the charge (if the opponent moves fast enough he might get in an attack too but generally he's still going to be out of melee range), the squad charges forward 6 spaces, then the squad takes their normal turn and charges another 6 spaces past the hero to engage and attack the opponents front lines. On OM3 the hero then moves in and joins the fray. Has a nice visual element to it for the grouping.

I only question the giving up of OM1 for a stat boost after the first round of the game. Once engaged in battle, not taking a turn on OM1 is a huge loss and your squad members could all be dead by the time you get around to revealing OM2, which means you can't bond with your boosted up hero. I'd first consider putting the OM reveal required for bonding with the squad on the hero rather then the squad since the hero had more life & defense as well as other Hero protections over squad figures. I'd also drop the engaged with two figures requirement on the +1/+1 stat bonus, since you are giving up one of your player turns it should always be on and not something your opponent can turn off by taking a LEA.
I will need to work on the wording to make it more clear. My intent wasn't for Brorok to surrender his turn, simply to reveal the OM early to receive the boost and then take his first turn when initiative rolls dictated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Then on the squad, I'd consider dropping the def. power and just bumping up the base def. to 4. With them being a 3 figure unique squad, you would want them to have a better chance of sticking around. If they were a common squad, then that defense power with a base defense of 3 would make a lot of sense. Without the high multiples of figures that come with multiple common squads drafted though, they can't afford to have that power dictating their figure placement in an effort to try and stay alive.
Again, a good point. With you and @capsocrates both making the suggestion to drop Bull-Wark I think I will move in that direction.

Thanks for taking the time to give me some great input!
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  #690  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 02:46 AM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Ahh...yeah, that will require some wording tweaks if the plan is still to take that turn. Unless revealing it's location before your opponent takes their turn I would just reword it so it's part of a regular OM reveal.

BULL HEADED
After revealing Order Marker Number 1 on this card, add 1 to Brorok's attack and defense die for the rest of the round anytime he is engaged with 2 or more figures.

or

BULL HEADED
If you revealed Order Marker Number 1 on this card, add 1 to Brorok's attack and defense die for the rest of the round anytime he is engaged with 2 or more figures.

Something along those lines should work. You don't need to specify being engaged with opponents figures as you are only 'engaged' with opponents figures and not 'engaged' when adjacent to friendly figures.
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  #691  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 06:33 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamaclown View Post
... I may go with the Swiftfangs wording (I don't know if you realize how ironic it is that you would direct me to them )
I had forgotten. Thanks for your work there; one of my favorite factions.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #692  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 08:04 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Going with the advice from @capsocrates and @Yodaking .



It will be much simpler to just trigger Bull Headed upon revealing OM 1 at the normal time to avoid any confusion of if or when Brorok takes a turn.

I also dropped Bull-wark on the guards and upped their defense by 1 to give them some staying power not base on positioning since they are unique. I also liked the suggestion to make them a strict Minotaur bonding unit so their Valiant Hero Bonding is now Minotaur Hero Binding,
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  #693  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 08:13 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Why not simplify further to this:

Quote:
If there is a revealed Order Marker Number 1 on this card and Brorok is engaged with 2 or more figures, add 1 to his Attack and Defense values.
Technically that could result in some small differences in how the power would act if it were negated or the revealed OM could get moved off his card, but I think it's simpler to digest that way.

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  #694  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 10:01 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Why not simplify further to this:



Technically that could result in some small differences in how the power would act if it were negated or the revealed OM could get moved off his card, but I think it's simpler to digest that way.
Nice wording.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #695  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 10:16 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Nice Minotaurs! They are both good with Asterios and any other Minotaurs you have up your sleeve. I might change Intimidating to “... at least 1 other Minotaur figure...” so the heroes help too and you can still get once the squad starts dying, but up to you. I might do like others and start buying figures for your customs.
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  #696  
Old January 4th, 2019, 06:38 PM
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Re: LC's Customs- Minotaur Stampede 01/02/19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Why not simplify further to this:

Quote:
If there is a revealed Order Marker Number 1 on this card and Brorok is engaged with 2 or more figures, add 1 to his Attack and Defense values.
Technically that could result in some small differences in how the power would act if it were negated or the revealed OM could get moved off his card, but I think it's simpler to digest that way.
I like simpler. I can live with any small differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Nice Minotaurs! They are both good with Asterios and any other Minotaurs you have up your sleeve. I might change Intimidating to ... at least 1 other Minotaur figure... so the heroes help too and you can still get once the squad starts dying, but up to you. I might do like others and start buying figures for your customs.
Thanks, lefton4ya! I have always liked Asterios and was excited when he came out as a unit.
I also like your suggestion of the change to "any other Minotaurs"

I have one other Minotaur figure in mind for a Unique Hero but he would fit perfectly with the Minoan Guards to make them a 4 man squad. I am on the fence about it. Any thoughts?
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