Rules Team HQ - Open for Business

[MrNobody]

Like I said, I'm pretty in favor of B, since it's what I believe to be the most consistent with C3G precedent.

Hasbro precedent is messy and often times silly, obviously because they had no conception of something like C3G and its masses of cards. I think having the "Start of X" happen before the action that Hasbro marks as "beginning X" is the most consistent answer for C3G. The "start of your turn" happens before you reveal an Order Marker and I'm pretty sure the "start of the game" happens before you place figures, right?

I'm also not sure that's inconsistent with Hasbro anyways. Tickle brought up one quote that makes it seem inconsistent, but there's also this:

Each round of play consists of the following four steps:
1. Place Your order markers.
2. Roll for initiative.
3. Players take their turns one at a time, until each player has taken three turns.
4. Move the round marker ahead to the next number.

Which pretty clearly makes it seem like placing Order Markers happens as part of the round, not before it. Overall, interpreting Hasbro rules feels more like interpreting the Bible than interpreting law...sometimes there are just contradictions.

Overall, I'm mostly just in favor of keeping "Start of the game", "Start of the round", and "Start of the turn" fairly consistent, which seems like the best thing for the game as a whole, personally.

[tcglkn]

We should go with C.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

We should go with C.

Do we update all our 'start of the game' and 'start of the turn' powers to match? (That's not like...a gotcha question, I guess I just don't see a huge point of those 2 existing and then saying 'start of the round' doesn't exist.)

[Soundwarp SG-1]

I'd pretty strongly disagree with B being clearly against Hasbro precident compared to A.

Like Hasbro had two start of the round powers that both happened before initiative. And yes, they further specified past just "at the start of the round" but.. if they wanted something to happen after initiative they 100% would have specified that too. Not left you to somehow infer that just "at the start of the round" means "at the start of the round but after doing other stuff" by process of elimination on other random cards.

But anyway, my non-vote would be for C. Specifying on the cards is a lot friendlier to new peeps and such than them having to find a ruling (and easier for older peeps to stay on the same page too).

Or another variation of that option could be not using "at the start of the round" at all and just using the actual useful bits. "Before placing Order Markers for a round" "Before rolling initiative", "After initiative" something like that. Pretty sure a few cards already use "After initiative".

[quozl]

Are there instances where this matters?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by quozl

Are there instances where this matters?

Yes. Rick Jones, for instance, specifies "at the start of the round" but then mentions Order Markers in a way that only works if the timing is after Order Markers are placed. But there are other powers that are clearly intended to be before Order Markers are placed and use Start of Round language (drawing a blank on the specifics at the moment).

Fwiw I largely agree with Soundwarp. I believe Hasbro used the term in too vague of a way for it to be clearly before or after Order Marker placement or initiative rolling, so we probably just want to use those two actions as our triggers rather then mentioning the start of the round at all.

[quozl]

If the intent is clear, why do we need to make any changes?

[Lord Pyre]

C seems best all around. No confusion, start of round includes OMs and Initiative.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by quozl

If the intent is clear, why do we need to make any changes?

We’re trying to avoid mechanical contradictions across the project. Also the intent is not clear from every current usage, I believe.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Also the intent is not clear from every current usage, I believe.

I'd like to see evidence before making decisions.

[IAmBatman]

Fwiw, I'm submitting this for discussion, not asking for any final decisions. That said, learning our new process here, but seems like if further research is required, we're meant to vote to move to that next stage. I believe it'd make sense at this point, since we don't have any clear initial agreement.

I propose we move to the Research and Clarification phase.

[IAmBatman]

*crickets*