The Book of Dr.Doom

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, you guys are starting to pull me back over to the other side of it. Like I said, I can really see both sides. With a death involved, it's not as clear cut to me as Mind Shackling with a Mind Exchanged figure.

[LoneDragon]

Doctor Doom looks really fun to play with...at least he did before I read this thread. Now Im just confused.

I'd have to have the cards in front of me to really say for sure but Im leaning towards Doom's controller getting the benefits.

~Yub yub, Commander!

[Starflyer]

Looks to me like if there are no opponents' heroes to mind exchange you can do this on one of your own heroes to get another turn with him. The card doesn't state that this is to be done only on an opponent.

[IAmBatman]

You can definitely use Mind Exchange on your own heroes as well, Starflyer. I think it just doesn't come up much in these conversations because it just often seems more beneficial (and sneaky fun) to control your opponent's figure for a turn.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Originally Posted by Starflyer

Looks to me like if there are no opponents' heroes to mind exchange you can do this on one of your own heroes to get another turn with him. The card doesn't state that this is to be done only on an opponent.

Good point, Starflyer. I hadn't thought of that at all to tell you the truth.

[Penitus]

Has anyone discussed why Doom was given mind exchange to begin with?

He could have been given any number of powers, and I'm curious why Mind Exchange in particular.

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by Penitus

Has anyone discussed why Doom was given mind exchange to begin with?

He could have been given any number of powers, and I'm curious why Mind Exchange in particular.

It's nothing special in Marvelscape, but a figure with flying and a range 6, 5-die normal attack is a big deal in classic. Being a flying ranged hero with good defense and super strength is his main "power." The mind exchange is gravy-- strong, but far less reliable. I would say it's for flavor first and foremost. It won't go off every game.

[Elginb]

Originally Posted by Penitus

Has anyone discussed why Doom was given mind exchange to begin with?

He could have been given any number of powers, and I'm curious why Mind Exchange in particular.

I was also curious about that when he first came out, but I've come to think it's particularly thematic of Dr. Doom. First off, in the comics, he did actually learn the ability to mind exchange from the alien Ovoids (way back in one of the first 50 issues of The Fantastic Four). Given, it's not a power that he uses frequently, but it's there. Aside from that, Dr. Doom does have a tendency to manipulate heroes (and villains) to do his bidding-- so you could also see the mind exchange power as a way to represent his ability to deviously plan things out in advance. Also, Dr. Doom has often stolen the powers of other heroes (early on, he stole the Silver Surfer's powers, much later he stole both the powers of Galactus AND the Beyonder, in quick succession). So, thematically, I think Mind Exchange can represent all those tendencies and abilities.

[Penitus]

Originally Posted by rdhight

It's nothing special in Marvelscape, but a figure with flying and a range 6, 5-die normal attack is a big deal in classic. Being a flying ranged hero with good defense and super strength is his main "power." The mind exchange is gravy-- strong, but far less reliable. I would say it's for flavor first and foremost. It won't go off every game.

Oops. I meant my post to refer to why Doom as a character has that power. Not that Doom hasn't mind controlled people in the past, but he's not really known FOR mind controlling people.

I would have given him explosions, double attacks, death lasers, and all sorts of things before mind control.

EDIT: Good call Elginb

[rdhight]

Yes, Elginb does make good points.

Mechanically, I think Mind Exchange was a way to cut down on the Marvel squad-killing threats. The first 10 heroes already include strong anti-swarm, and the designers seem to be going out of their way to make sure the best squads, both common and unique, can go up against the best heroes and have a chance to prevail. If Doom's supply of death lasers, double attack, and explosion is too good against squads, the pendulum might swing too far toward big heroes mowing down squad figures left and right.

Tossing in a few powers that can't hurt an enemy's squads is part of maintaining that balance. As things stand now, an opponent can avoid the effects of Mind Exchange and Cosmic Force Blast by sending squads into the fight, and the Marvel single-attackers remain somewhat vulnerable to low-cost hordes.

EDIT: Woah, you know what I just now realized? The Marro Hive's common-activating power is a reveal-order-marker-only, just like Red Skull. But the rest of the previewed command powers are "instead of taking a turn with" wording! That means that Dr. Doom can:

1. Mind Exchange his own or an enemy Ulginesh and instead take a turn with two other Elf Wizards he controls within range,

2. Mind Exchange his own or an enemy Kato Katsuro and take a turn with a samurai hero, samurai squad, or two Ashigaru squads he controls within range,

3. Mind Exchange his own or an enemy Hive and have a chance to raise a common Marro you control!

Add in the fact that Red Skull's manipulation can chain to the command powers of Kato or Ulginesh, and that he can also manipulate Shiori to do her best work. Plus, Tor-Kul-Na seems like he'd be a great partner for Doom, because Doom is anti-hero, and TKN is a big, durable anti-squad beater for when the enemy brings a swarm against him. Everybody's been nominating Captain America for the guy most likely to find a home in mixed games, but it seems to me that with the release of SotM and Wave 8, Red Skull and Doom are going to become equally or even more desirable in mixed games in the 700+ range.

And then on top of that, the Nagrubs will allow you to choose whether to activate TKN or Su-Bak-Na or the new Hivelord.... With Doom at 245, Red Skull at 190, Kato at 200, TKN at 220, and Ulginesh at 150, suddenly it starts looking pretty easy to build a 700-point army or beyond that has a manageable number of army cards and is going to give you a choice of who to activate on a big proportion of your order markers. Sorry, I'm rambling. Probably I'll find out tomorrow everyone else already thought of this weeks ago.

[Lord Pyre]

I thought of that with Ornakk, actually. But it should work with Doom, too. Red Skull, too.
It doesn't help that IMO Doom's figure looks the best.....

[thestaton]

Any official clarification to who gets the spirit?