The Book of Punisher (Defenders)

[johnny139]

So I think for any sort of "Punisher and friends" design to work, there has to be the underlying tension of him taking it too far. There's the agreement (which he inevitably breaks) that you're playing by OUR rules, Frank, or this is over. Without that tension I just can't imagine a design for him in the Crime Fighter/Fighter faction.

I'd do something like this:

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 8
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

UNLIKELY ANGEL
At the start of the game, choose a Unique Hero you control that is a Fighter or Crime Fighter to be his Ally. If the Punisher destroys a figure with an attack or special power, this power is negated.

DRAMATIC OFFENSE
After attacking a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Punisher with his normal attack, he may attack one additional time. After rolling attack dice for a normal attack, you may subtract any number of skulls from the roll. For each skull subtracted this way, you may move Punisher or his Ally 1 space.

PLAYING DEFENSE
If an opponent’s figure within 8 clear sight spaces of Punisher targets his Ally for an attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, that opponent move move that figure 1 space. If they do, you may roll the 20-sided die again. If they do not, that figure receives 1 wound. Figures may not be moved closer to Punisher with this special power.

Rolled the SA into the normal attack for space reasons - I do like the power, but it seemed most trimmable/savable for a dedicated Punisher design.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

OK, now do that thing where you make a positive suggestion for directions.

I'm on it.

[Lord Pyre]

Not interested in a "tension" design here. Our first one isn't like that and he's fun and fine, I just wanted this guy to be a faction cap. If I can't have that then I'm moving on.

[IAmBatman]

My too late suggestion for posterity:

NAME = PUNISHER
SECRET IDENTITY= FRANK CASTLE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = FIGHTER
PERSONALITY = RUTHLESS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 200

PROTECTIVE FIRE
If an opponent’s figure targets a figure you control for an attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, the opponent that controls the attacking figure may allow you to move it 1 space. If the figure is:
• not moved 1 space, it receives 1 wound; or
• moved 1 space, you may roll the 20-sided die again.

PUNISHING SHOT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 8. Attack 1.
When using this Special Attack, Shields rolled count as 1 hit, Blanks rolled count as 2 hits, and Skulls rolled count as 3 hits. Punisher may only use Punishing Shot once per round, and may only target non-adjacent figures.

RELENTLESS PUNISHMENT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 4.
If Punisher inflicts a wound on a figure with this special attack, he must attack that figure again. He must continue attacking that figure this way until that figure is destroyed or he fails to inflict a wound. If Punisher destroys a figure this way, then for the remainder of the round he can only take a turn after revealing an Order Marker on this card.

[Yodaking]

I'd be excited about a 1000 point team like that, although I'd for sure end up swapping in Moon Knight like you suggested. He's just always been one of my favs and his card is top notch at that price point. Not really feeling that first power though, seems like a lot of confusing text for very little pay off.

I like the single die SA that never misses idea, I'd change the blank result to 4 hits though, so it's 4 hits 1/6, 3 hits 3/6, & 1 hit 2/6 times.

If you want to make the Punisher/DD combo more effective while staying on theme, I'd go with a power called RELUCTANT ALLIES that gives Punisher some kind of hook with a single Crime Fighter. Maybe something similar to what the Yakuza Enforcers do would work here if you want to protect DD to some extent. Before a figure moves into engagement with DD, if Punisher is with in x spaces of that figure roll the d20, on a roll of y+ that figure must immediately stop it's movement. The theme would be that cover fire concept where he shoots at anyone trying to engage DD and stops them in their tracks, giving DD the chance to be the first one that attacks. It would only be good vs. melee only designs, but not being attacked at all by them would certainly help DD live longer. Or you could go the other way and any time a non-adj. figure targets DD, Punshier shoots at them and prevents them from attacking on a y+ d20 roll. Then he's using his guns to protect DD from those trying to shoot him, but leaving DD to fight his own battles once in close combat.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by johnny139

So I think for any sort of "Punisher and friends" design to work, there has to be the underlying tension of him taking it too far. There's the agreement (which he inevitably breaks) that you're playing by OUR rules, Frank, or this is over. Without that tension I just can't imagine a design for him in the Crime Fighter/Fighter faction.

I'd do something like this:

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 8
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

UNLIKELY ANGEL
At the start of the game, choose a Unique Hero you control that is a Fighter or Crime Fighter to be his Ally. If the Punisher destroys a figure with an attack or special power, this power is negated.

DRAMATIC OFFENSE
After attacking a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Punisher with his normal attack, he may attack one additional time. After rolling attack dice for a normal attack, you may subtract any number of skulls from the roll. For each skull subtracted this way, you may move Punisher or his Ally 1 space.

PLAYING DEFENSE
If an opponent’s figure within 8 clear sight spaces of Punisher targets his Ally for an attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, that opponent move move that figure 1 space. If they do, you may roll the 20-sided die again. If they do not, that figure receives 1 wound. Figures may not be moved closer to Punisher with this special power.

Rolled the SA into the normal attack for space reasons - I do like the power, but it seemed most trimmable/savable for a dedicated Punisher design.

I'm on it.

I think you are getting too hung up on the idea that going to 0 life = dead. Superman isn't murdering everyone he takes down to 0 life, 0 life just means incapacitated and unable to continue the fight. Frank can agree not to kill anyone and then just brutally maim them for life and not violate that no kill rule while still taking them down to 0 life.

[Lord Pyre]

Alright, sorry I got dramatic the other night. I was having a very bad day on top of a very rough week, and thought this guy was a home run, so I got frustrated.

I'm a bit cooled off, so I want to take one more shot at it before giving up. I'm keeping him as a Fighter (Being a grittier class than the "friendly" Spider-man and such), but now all other callouts are general. I renamed all the powers to hopefully get the theme across better. I turned Punishing Shot into Kill Shot, with the negative of losing your OM's when you shock your teammate. Otherwise he's just laying down constant machine gun fire to suppress the enemy.

My goal and vision is still to cap off the Netflix Defenders, so I want him to be 200 points exactly, and can tweak numbers as needed. I really like this powerset (on paper, obviously), and think he'll be a great addition to them. Do we think we can work with this as-is, or with minor tweaks to preserve the intent? Or should I move on?

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

NAME = PUNISHER
SECRET IDENTITY= FRANK CASTLE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = FIGHTER
PERSONALITY = RUTHLESS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 200

COUNTER FIRE
If an opponent’s figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Punisher targets Punisher or a figure you control, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, the opponent that controls the attacking figure may allow you to move that figure 1 space. If the figure is:
• not moved 1 space, it receives 1 wound; or
• moved 1 space, you may roll the 20-sided die again.

KILL SHOT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 8. Attack 1.
When using this Special Attack you must choose a non-adjacent figure to attack. Shields rolled count as 1 hit, Blanks rolled count as 2 hits, and Skulls rolled count as 3 hits. If a figure targeted by this attack is destroyed, remove all Order Markers from Army Cards you control.

ADVANCING PUNISHMENT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 4.
After attacking with this Special Attack, he may attack one additional time. After rolling combat dice for each attack against an opponent's figure, for each skull rolled, you may move Punisher or a friendly figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Punisher 1 space.

[IAmBatman]

Is Advancing Punishment supposed to allow him to attack one additional time "with his normal attack"? My assumption from reading the first sentence would be that you just attack with the special attack again, but the second sentence implies otherwise.

[Lord Pyre]

Nope I missed an edit. It's all tied to that SA. Fixed.

I also suppose we should specify opponent's figures somewhere in there, so he's not shooting allies to move.

[IAmBatman]

Cool cool. Personally I think Ruthless Crime Fighter makes more sense than Fighter, but I'm really not the one you need to sell here anyway.

[tcglkn]

I agree Ruthless Crime Fighter works for me here and I like the updated draft.

[MrNobody]

I'm pro-Fighter.

[Lord Pyre]

Alright, just to be clearer, lets just focus on either running this design, or shelving it, rather than the minutiae that we could hash out later.

Should we run the above posted writeup (With any normal design phase tweaks needed as usual, but keeping the same spirit).

I'll tag the heroes, but obviously all opinions and expertise is welcome.

@Arch-vile
@johnny139
@LordVenoc
@MrNobody
@Soundwarp SG-1
@tcglkn
@Arkham

Yea:


Nay: