The Book of Batman (Bat-Family)

[IAmBatman]

I like those suggestions.

[Arch-vile]

Sorry for the delay in responding here @MrNobody , I wanted to go into it in depth but have been too busy to do so until now. I've already run one test (others will be tonight), and my first tweak was to simplify the triggers, so the powers activate at the same time. I changed the autowound power to occur right after the figure movement, that way Batman's abilities activate all in one swoop. This also simplifies Bat-Cave training a bit by no longer requiring a second figure nearby.

Archie's planned change:
BAT-CAVE TRAINING 15
Once per player turn, after moving a Sidekick or Vigilante you control, you may choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of that Sidekick or Vigilante and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives one wound.

I have Bat-Family Movement worded the way I do to avoid the "no other turns" clause on all the Robins. I think your wording accomplishes that with the "immediately", but it also allows for any other special powers to be used during a turn. Which is handy so we don't have to call out Bat-Grapple, but it does allow stuff like Wonder Girl Donna's Amazon Lasso or the Bolas glyph to be used. So probably okay, but we'd have to be careful giving "instead of attacking" or "before moving and before attacking" powers to Vigilantes and Sidekicks in the future.

Original wording:
BAT-FAMILY MOVEMENT
After revealing an Order Marker on the card of a Vigilante you control and before taking a turn with that Vigilante, you may choose another Sidekick or Vigilante you control. The chosen Sidekick or Vigilante may move or, if they have the Bat-Grapple special power, they may use it instead. The chosen figure may not move again this player turn.

Nobody's suggested wording:
BAT-FAMILY MOVEMENT
Immediately after revealing an Order Marker on the card of a Vigilante you control and before taking a turn with that Vigilante, you may take a turn with another Sidekick or Vigilante you control, during which they cannot attack. The chosen figure may not move again this player turn.

[IAmBatman]

Looks reasonable.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

So probably okay, but we'd have to be careful giving "instead of attacking" or "before moving and before attacking" powers to Vigilantes and Sidekicks in the future.

My thinking was that it was something that could be built upon with future Bat-Family designs, but it's probably not worth adding yet another design restriction/demand on the Sidekick class, yeah.

[MrNobody]

Oh, and one more thought - which Vigilantes/Sidekicks have reactive dodge-y type powers? I think Robin (Dick Grayson) and the like will be really natural pairings here, since they let you use Bat-Cave Training on the other player's turns.

[Arch-vile]

Good catch, I should change that to only work on your player turn. Wasn’t meant to be a reactive thing.

[Arch-vile]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman (Bat-Family)

Design tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = BATMAN
SECRET IDENTITY = BRUCE WAYNE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = VIGILANTE
PERSONALITY = DRIVEN

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 230

BAT-FAMILY MOVEMENT
After revealing an Order Marker on the card of a Vigilante you control and before taking a turn with that Vigilante, you may choose another Sidekick or Vigilante you control. The chosen Sidekick or Vigilante may move or, if they have the Bat-Grapple special power, they may use it instead. The chosen figure may not move again this player turn.

I AM THE NIGHT
Batman is never attacked when leaving an engagement. All enemy figures within 5 clear sight spaces of Batman subtract 1 from their 20-sided die rolls, and 1 from their Defense numbers when attacked by a Sidekick or Vigilante you control.

BAT-CAVE TRAINING 15
Once per player turn, after attacking with a Sidekick or Vigilante you control, if you control another unengaged Sidekick or Vigilante within 5 clear sight spaces of the defending figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher, the defending figure receives a wound.

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Batman (Bat-Family) (230), Robin Dick, Robin Jason, Bat-Hound, Lucius Fox, Huntress, Batgirl Babs, Black Bat (1000) VS Fan4 (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Power Usage:
Bat-Family Movement: used every turn early on, less useful as the game progressed
I Am The Night: used when in range
Bat-Cave Training: 10 rolls, 4 wounds

Batman allows his allies to move up first, then moves within 5 spaces of Reed to get his defense-subtracting and d20-subtracting aura active. The Fan4 have a pretty slow start with bad Fantastic Leadership rolls.

The Fan4 take out Batgirl early, and Reed takes a ton of wounds. Reed is taken out, then Human Torch finishes off Black Bat. Batman ties down Human Torch with a bola, and Bat-Family Movement is really handy for avoiding Flame On 4 wounds. Torch supernovas to kill Dick and wound a few others (including his allies). Batman and Jason kill Torch.

Thing takes out Bat-Hound. Batman finishes off Invisible Woman. Thing wallops Batman for a few wounds before being taken out.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman (3 wounds), Huntress (3 wounds), Jason Todd (2 wounds), Lucius Fox win.

Fun army, and pretty close finish since all the Gothamites were close to death. Batman has a lot going on, so along with all the various effects from the other Vigilantes and Sidekicks, there’s a fair bit to remember. It may be useful to tie the activations of Bat-Family Movement and Bat-Cave Training to the same trigger.

___________________________________________________________

I went ahead and made that change, so the d20 autowound occurs after moving. That keeps everything happening at the same time.

Design tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = BATMAN
SECRET IDENTITY = BRUCE WAYNE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = VIGILANTE
PERSONALITY = DRIVEN

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 230

BAT-FAMILY MOVEMENT
After revealing an Order Marker on the card of a Vigilante you control and before taking a turn with that Vigilante, you may choose another Sidekick or Vigilante you control. The chosen Sidekick or Vigilante may move or, if they have the Bat-Grapple special power, they may use it instead. The chosen figure may not move again this player turn.

I AM THE NIGHT
Batman is never attacked when leaving an engagement. All enemy figures within 5 clear sight spaces of Batman subtract 1 from their 20-sided die rolls, and 1 from their Defense numbers when attacked by a Sidekick or Vigilante you control.

BAT-CAVE TRAINING 15
Once per player turn, after moving a Sidekick or Vigilante you control, you may choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of that Sidekick or Vigilante and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives one wound.

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Batman (Bat-Family) (230), Robin Tim, Robin Damian, Ragman, Catwoman, Alfred (800) VS Luke Cage, Moon Knight, Punisher, Firestar, White Tiger (800)

Spoiler Alert!

Power Usage:
Bat-Family Movement: used pretty much every turn
I Am The Night: used often when in range
Bat-Cave Training: 9 rolls, 2 wounds

Tim moves forward and gets a lucky 2 wounds onto Luke Cage, but then he is immediately one-shot by Firestar. Catwoman takes out Firestar. Catwoman and Damian take out Luke, costing them OM2. Ragman takes advantage of the opportunity to burn his souls and take out Punisher. Moon Knight takes out Damian.

Batman and Catwoman take out Moon Knight. White Tiger takes out Catwoman. Batman finishes off White Tiger.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman (2 wounds), Ragman (1 wound), Alfred win.

The defense drop from I Am The Night is quite useful alongside the free movement. Bat-Cave Training was more of a handy bonus when it popped up.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Batman (Bat-Family) (230), Robin Dick, Azrael, Batgirl Cassandra, Batgirl Steph, Oracle, Nite Owl (1000) VS OG X-Men (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Power Usage:
Bat-Family Movement: used nearly every turn even just to reposition
I Am The Night: used when in range
Bat-Cave Training: 6 rolls, 3 wounds

Similar strategy here to the first two games. The Mutants take out Steph and Dick early on, but then Azrael goes on a rampage and kills Jean and Beast. Iceman ices Azrael in revenge. Batman and Nite Owl take down Cyclops. Batman and Nite Owl then finish off Iceman and Angel. Professor X resigns.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman, Nite Owl, Oracle, Batgirl Cassandra (1 wound) win.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Batman makes the Vigilantes work quite well as a faction while retaining their factional identity. I had a lot of fun with him, though the faction does have a lot of moving parts so there’s a decent amount of head space required.

I don’t really think the d20 subtraction is necessary for this design (it’s one more thing to remember), so I’m going to cut that. I’m also moving I Am The Night to the bottom so it’s more clear that the movement from Bat-Family Movement can activate Bat-Cave Training’s autowounds.

Balance-wise, Batman is coming in a bit hot.

I’m also not sure the autowound power is necessarily needed. Batman provides a nice boost to his team with his other two powers. It probably would be cleaner to just let Bruce himself have an autowound power like Moon Knight’s. We could change that and bump his points a tad, and I think that’d be a solid tweak to him.

[IAmBatman]

So what’s the version you want to move forward with?

[Arch-vile]

So here's where I ended up. I think I'd like to ditch Bat-Cave Training and add an autowound power for Batman only. In addition to Batman making the Family overpowered, it's still a lot of powers to juggle when they activate every turn.

BAT-FAMILY MOVEMENT
After revealing an Order Marker on the card of a Vigilante you control and before taking a turn with that Vigilante, you may choose another Sidekick or Vigilante you control. The chosen Sidekick or Vigilante may move or, if they have the Bat-Grapple special power, they may use it instead. The chosen figure may not move again this player turn.

BAT-CAVE TRAINING 15
Once on your player turn, after moving a Sidekick or Vigilante you control, you may choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of that Sidekick or Vigilante and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives one wound.

I AM THE NIGHT
Batman is never attacked when leaving an engagement. All enemy figures within 5 clear sight spaces of Batman subtract 1 from their Defense numbers when attacked by a Sidekick or Vigilante you control.

Something like this:
BATARANG FLURRY 15
After moving and instead of attacking with Batman, you may choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Batman and roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 15 or higher, the chosen figure receives 1 wound. After using Batarang Flurry, you may use it two additional times.

Then I'd increase his points to like 250 and go from there.

[IAmBatman]

Is just the little bit of movement and -1 defense aura enough to drive those points?

[Arch-vile]

Yeah I think so. The movement means your bonding is consistent and you can utilize your non-attacking figures for blocking. It lets Batman move up for free which means your opponent is often fighting at -1 defense. And it has use in letting anyone reposition if the need arises. I did not expect it to be so useful but the Vigilantes really capitalize on it.

The free autowounds were handy but very unreliable, but it felt like too much when it was all part of the same package, and I preferred the -1 defense and movement synergies.

[IAmBatman]

Ok cool. Sounds good! Thanks for walking me through it. Excited for this guy!