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Misc Customs Project Forum A subforum for all project based customs that generate numerous threads related to the same project.


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  #1  
Old June 13th, 2017, 06:50 PM
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Apotheox Apotheox is offline
 
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Some Customs I'm Working On (your input appreciated)

What I want the most out of this thread is a refining of the point costs I have assigned or I am aiming for so that these units can be playetested in a fair (enough) environment. I haven't tested any of these units yet, as they are still in the conceptual stage. I will commence playtesting once you guys have had a look at the point values I have right now.

My intent is for all the customs I make to
  • fit thematically into the Heroscape canon
  • add an unexplored or underutilized strategic element or combat fantasy to the game
  • be fun to play with, both as and against
All three of these pillars are equally important to me. The following units are all works in progress:

Units with the *new* tag have not been discussed yet.


JANDAR *NEW UNIT*
Spoiler Alert!


ULLAR
Spoiler Alert!


UTGAR *NEW UNIT*
Spoiler Alert!


VYDAR *NEW UNIT*
Spoiler Alert!


To rehash, the main goal is to discuss the relationship between power and point cost before playtesting, but feel free to talk about anything you think is worth discussing!

Last edited by Apotheox; July 8th, 2017 at 09:10 AM.
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  #2  
Old June 13th, 2017, 07:19 PM
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Re: Some Customs I'm Working On (your input appreciated)

Welcome to the site! I'm no master of Point Value determination myself, but here's my basic feedback on what you've got.

Mejna: Firstly, her aura should only affect figures with a Range number higher than 1 so that it doesn't affect melee units. As far as pricing goes, I'd suggest higher than 80. Raelin is more of an exception than a rule as far as Aura-units go, and there's a reason Taelord is 180 points. Since Range is already pretty strong in Heroscape as is, I'd suggest at least 120 for Mejna. Fortunately her personality clashes with the 4th Mass.

Skylord: At first I didn't like the figure but imagining his legs as Viper arms actually makes the sculpt work, especially if you painted it green. He doesn't seem worth the 100 at first glance, but with Venoc Warlord he has 9 move and flying, making him quite the mobile assassin. Enemies won't be able to hide their cheerleaders from him and he can get height advantage easily. So that balanced against his poor survivability makes 100 points sound about right to me.

Nethos: This guy is quite interesting indeed. Touch of Stone and Phantom Walk make him impossible to ignore but Crown of Madness is a dangerous ability. He's definitely a good counter to armies over-reliant on a single squad or hero. I think he's the best of these customs and 130 sounds about right for him. As far as any loopholes regarding destruction, you could make it so he has to be destroyed by an attack, but then he'll lose his effectiveness against units like Braxas. Really he's a Custom so I don't have a problem if one of his powers feels "customy"

Good stuff here, thanks for sharing!

~TAF

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

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Old June 13th, 2017, 08:21 PM
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Re: Some Customs I'm Working On (your input appreciated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
Mejna: Firstly, her aura should only affect figures with a Range number higher than 1 so that it doesn't affect melee units. As far as pricing goes, I'd suggest higher than 80. Raelin is more of an exception than a rule as far as Aura-units go, and there's a reason Taelord is 180 points. Since Range is already pretty strong in Heroscape as is, I'd suggest at least 120 for Mejna. Fortunately her personality clashes with the 4th Mass.
You're dead-right about Mejna. I adjusted her aura to require 4+ range to benefit from it and her point cost should now reflect the ranged meta.

I also clarified the terms of destruction for Crown of Madness from "is destroyed by a figure" to "is destroyed by an attack or special power on a figure's Army Card". Sorry, but I never intended for that snake slip through. If the queen wants to kill Nethos, she's gonna have to wear his crown
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Old June 14th, 2017, 02:43 AM
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Re: Some Customs I'm Working On (your input appreciated)

I must say I have been looking at that Wyvern for a while now because it is a very interesting sculpt but I had always thought of it as another dragon figure for Aquilla along the lines of Moltenclaw and Othkurik, but I would have never thought of turning it into a viper. Quite an original idea! I also like the simplicity of the card though he has an awful lot going on being a scout with frenzy, and bonding with the death knights as a relentless hero. but otherwise I think it's a really neat idea!

Nethos is also very unique! I really like the concept of Crown of Madness though I think 16 is a pretty low threshold to gain control of your opponents figure(s). Issues with this power that I could foresee would involve bonding. Say it was a Knight of Weston who finished off Nethos if he goes on their card and successfully rolls for Crown of Madness then would your opponent still be able to take a turn with a human champion before you take your turn out of turn with the knights? Some ways around this could be clarifying that only if a unique hero destroys Nethos THEN he is placed on the card of the hero, or he is placed on the card of the nearest Unique Hero. Alternatively, you could have it be that at the end of the round you roll for Crown of Madness and if you succeed then you take a turn with that army card, or you MUST attack any adjacent figure with the figure(s) of the army card that Nethos is on so that it will either harm your opponent or possibly backfire on you. not exactly sure but very potent custom there!

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Old June 14th, 2017, 06:12 PM
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Re: Some Customs I'm Working On (your input appreciated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by darius23__14 View Post
...he has an awful lot going on being a scout with frenzy, and bonding with the death knights as a relentless hero.
Bonding with the Death Knights might either be interesting or useless. I don't own them so I forgot about them. Thanks for pointing that out and bringing them to mind. I'll have to look into them to see how they're presence in the game affects Skylord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darius23__14 View Post
...I think 16 is a pretty low threshold to gain control of your opponents figure(s)
It's a fixed 25% chance (barring other customs), compared to Marcu Esenwein's 20%. I feel that if it doesn't activate more often than Eternal Hatred, then the psychological weight won't be strong enough for the power to work. Nethos will still get his points worth (and more) if your opponent doesn't care and uses someone like Q9 to gun him down early. He is primarily a counter-pick to armies that rely on pouring Order Markers onto a few strong cards, so if they don't have a response to him, then their army will be less effective and consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darius23__14 View Post
Issues with this power that I could foresee would involve bonding. Say it was a Knight of Weston who finished off Nethos if he goes on their card and successfully rolls for Crown of Madness then would your opponent still be able to take a turn with a human champion before you take your turn out of turn with the knights?
Thanks for pointing that out.

I originally modeled Crown of Madness after Marcu Esenwein’s Eternal Hatred, but the fact that Crown of Madness can happen to any unit means that there needs to be further clarification on what is meant by the use of the term “turn” for the purpose of other special powers that might be on that card, such as bonding. Who’s turn is it, technically? Which player is the one "taking a turn” with the unit? The answer to these questions should be in the updated description for Crown of Madness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Champion Bonding
Before taking a turn with Knights of Weston, you may first take a turn with any Human Champion you control.
The result is this: Let’s say Bob has Alastair MacDirk and Nethos, and Julie has Sir Denrick and a full squad of Knights of Weston. Julie uses her Knights to destroy Nethos. Julie's Knights are now cursed by the Crown of Madness. Fast forward to the next round. It is now Julie’s turn, and she reveals an Order Marker on the cursed Knights. As it now says on Nethos’s card, the first thing Julie must do (even before she can “take a turn” with Denrick or the Knights) is roll the 20d for Crown of Madness. Julie rolls a 4. Good for her! The rest of the turn plays out like any other normal turn. Since Julie still has control of her own Knights this turn, she can now take a turn with the Knights, which means that she can take a turn with Sir Denrick first. Just a normal turn with bonding. Simple stuff, but the catch is that Julie must roll the 20d before she is able to take at turn with the Knights or activate Denrick with the bonding.

Now, lets look at the situation in which Julie rolls a 16 or higher with the cursed Knights. Remember that Bob only has Alastair left (a Human Champion), and Julie has Denrick and a squad of Knights plagued by the Crowd of Madness.

Julie reveals an Order Marker on the cursed Knights, so she must roll the 20d before she can do anything else. This time, Julie rolls an 18. Bob is jumping with joy because he has been waiting the entire match for this moment. Control of the Knights immediately goes to Bob for the remainder of Julie's turn and now Bob may take a turn with the Knights. Now, to see which player gets to take advantage of the Knight's Human Champion Bonding to take a turn with their Human Champion, let’s take a closer look at how the special power works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Champion Bonding
Before taking a turn with Knights of Weston, you may first take a turn with any Human Champion you control.
Human Champion Bonding has two requirements: 1) You must be able to take a turn with the Knights of Weston and 2) the other unit must be a Human Champion you control. Since Julie lost control of the Knights before she was able to take a turn with them, she does not get to activate a Human Champion. Since Bob is the one taking a turn with the Knights, he gets to activate a Human Champion he controls. Keep in mind it is still Julie’s turn, but Bob is the one taking the turn with the Knights.

We’ve established that Bob is taking a turn with the Knights of Weston, and that they are under his control for the remainder of the turn. Bob does not control Sir Denrick, so Bob cannot use Human Champion Bonding to take a turn with Denrick. However, Bob has control of his own Alastair MacDirk. So, since Bob is able to take a turn with the Knights, he can use the Knight's Human Champion Bonding to first take a turn with his own Alastair that he himself controls.

Very pleased with himself, Bob takes a turn with Alastair and uses Overextend Attack to bring Alastair adjacent to Sir Denrick, getting 2 wounds on Denrick. Now Bob takes a turn with Julie’s Knights, who turn on Denrick and finish him off. Since Bob has finished taking a turn with Julie's Knights, it is the end of Julie’s turn, and thus control of the Knights returns to her. Now Julie’s turn is over and the game continues. Although Julie was not in control of any units the moment Sir Denrick was destroyed, the game was not over, since she got her Knights back before her turn ended. “Don’t you just love bonding?” asks Bob, grinning. Julie vows to think more carefully next time she is faced with the opportunity to destroy Nethos, especially with a unit that can bond with a unit her opponent owns.

It’s a very specific situation that won’t come up very often, and it sounds like it would be a fun moment, but when it does, I hope the latest description of Crown of Madness properly reflects how I intend it to play out.

Thank you for your insight
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