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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #121  
Old November 15th, 2019, 10:53 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Disagree with rewording that last line of Atmos Mastery. She should be able to hide in her own fog.
That is a good call. I was mostly following the precedent of the Gas Mask there. I'll remove that.
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  #122  
Old November 16th, 2019, 12:28 AM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Don't forget to vote!

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  #123  
Old November 16th, 2019, 01:02 AM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Heh, having the other vote right above the proposal made me think I already had Yea
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  #124  
Old November 16th, 2019, 12:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Still need 2 votes.
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  #125  
Old November 16th, 2019, 03:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

yea
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  #126  
Old November 16th, 2019, 07:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

yea


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  #127  
Old November 16th, 2019, 07:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Looking over those tests, 270 seems like a bargain. Just the sheer offensive output is kind of crazy - other than Arkham's Army Test #2, I think she earned back her points in every game in wounds, and that's not even factoring in the non-wounding glyphs and their map control potential. Feels like she's efficient enough to warrant a bump to me.

For wording stuff, I think we should just consistently call them "Weather Glyphs," which is mostly consistent with how we phrase Utility Glyphs on cards. I moved the "cannot be placed on a space with a glyph on it" wording to after the pips for readability. I assume it's intentional they can be placed on spaces occupied by figures?

Atmospheric Mastery rephrased to avoid figures rolling dice, and Storm ignoring effects. She ignores everything, she's just a miniature.

Quote:
WEATHER SCULPTRESS
Start the game with up to four Weather Glyphs of different types on this card. Instead of:
moving, you may choose a Weather Glyph on the battlefield, and place it onto any space within 1 space of it's current placement.
attacking, you may place a Weather Glyph from this card power-side up onto any space within 6 spaces of Storm.
Weather Glyphs cannot be placed on any space occupied by a glyph. When Storm is destroyed, remove all Weather Glyphs that were placed by this special power from the battlefield.

ATMOSPHERIC MASTERY
Whenever the 20-sided die is rolled for a Weather Glyph, you may add or subtract 2 from the roll. Anytime Storm would be affected by a Glyph of Weather, you may ignore that glyph's effects.
For the Glyphs: nothing major, just some readability tweaks (mostly moving the "even if it's not occupied stuff" to the end of a sentence) based on Karat's rewordings and some more "figures don't roll dice" stuff. Tornado Glyph is really complicated. Boy I hate words.

Quote:
GLYPH OF WEATHER: BLIZZARD
SUBTITLE = MOVEMENT DISRUPTION

PERMANENT GLYPH

Count all land spaces on or within 1 space of the space this glyph occupies as Heavy Snow instead of its normal terrain type, even if this glyph is unoccupied. When a figure without the Ice Resistance special power begins its turn on an affected space, the player that controls that figure must first roll the 20-sided die. If they rolls 6 or lower, it cannot move this turn.

GLYPH OF WEATHER: FOG
SUBTITLE = SIGHT DISRUPTION

PERMANENT GLYPH

Figures on or within 1 space of this glyph cannot target or be targeted by non-adjacent figures for any attacks or special powers, and are not in clear sight of any other figures, even if this glyph is unoccupied

GLYPH OF WEATHER: THUNDERSTORM
SUBTITLE = AUTOMATIC WOUND

PERMANENT GLYPH

Whenever a figure ends its movement on or within 1 space of this glyph, even if this glyph is unoccupied, each player must roll the 20-sided die for each figure that player controls without the Electrically Charged special power that is on or within 1 space of this glyph, one at a time. Subtract 2 from the roll if that figure is an Android, Cyborg, or occupying a water space. If they roll 6 or lower, that figure receives one wound.

GLYPH OF WEATHER: TORNADO
SUBTITLE = FIGURE DISPLACEMENT

PERMANENT GLYPH

Any time a numbered Order Marker is revealed on any Army Card, or when this glyph is first placed onto the battlefield, all players must immediately roll the 20-sided die for any non-huge figure that is on or within 1 space of this glyph, even if this glyph is unoccupied. If a player rolls 6 or lower, the opponent to their left must place that figure on any empty space exactly 2 spaces away from this glyph, then the opponent to their right may place the figure up to an additional 2 spaces away. A placed figure never takes any leaving engagement attacks, cannot be placed closer to this glyph than its original placement, and will receive any falling damage that may apply. After the figure is placed, if it does not have the Super Strength special power, it receives one wound.
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  #128  
Old November 16th, 2019, 08:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Looking over those tests, 270 seems like a bargain. Just the sheer offensive output is kind of crazy - other than Arkham's Army Test #2, I think she earned back her points in every game in wounds, and that's not even factoring in the non-wounding glyphs and their map control potential. Feels like she's efficient enough to warrant a bump to me.
Don't really agree on using wounds inflicted as a means to factor her point value. There's many units I test that inflict more wounds than their point value, but that's because I'm building armies specifically around them, and making them the primary focus. Also, how are we determining what a wound is worth, their points divided by their life? If so, a figure's point value is comprised of a lot of things, I'm not sure that's a 1:1 method of accounting for something like that.

All that aside, I'll break things down in more granular detail so we can properly analyze a point value.

Game 1 @ 290:
3 wounds on Liu Kang.
2 wounds on Ms. Marvel.
1 wound on Valkyrie.

**Ms. Marvel puts 2 on Blob, 2 on Capt. Britain, 3 on Red Tornado, 3 on Storm

Game 2 @ 290:
3 wounds on Invisible Woman.
1 wound on Mr. Fantastic.
1 wound on Human Torch.

**Human Torch puts 3 wounds on Colossus, 2 on Cyclops II, and 2 on Nightcrawler II.

Game 3 @ 285:
4 wounds on Thrall(yellow)(botch).
2 wounds on Thrall(blue).
1 wound on Thrall(green).
4 wounds on Hela.
3 wounds on Magneto.
2 wounds on Oracle.

Game 4 @ 265:
3 wounds on Hand Ninjas.
3 wounds on Foot Ninjas.
1 wound on Shredder.
1 wound on Baby Groot (he's an ally)

**Foot put 3 wounds on Black Panther, 2 wounds on Baby Groot, and 5 wounds on Storm

Game 5 @ 270:
1 wound on Hulk
2 wounds on Living Mummy

**Magneto puts 7 wounds on Frankenstein, 4 on Hulk, 4 wounds on Living Mummy

Game 6 @ 265:
1 wound on Human Torch
3 wounds on Mister Fantastic
4 wounds on Thing
4 wounds on Invisible Woman

Game 7 @ 265:
1 wound on Starfire
2 wounds on Nightwing
1 wound on Superboy

I included some examples of other figures in those games hitting above their point value, as this is pretty common. Regardless, after breaking it all down, I'm a bit confused as to how you're getting her "sheer offensive output" based on those results.
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  #129  
Old November 16th, 2019, 08:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Speaking for my tests, I don't believe Professor X did any wounds in either of my tests, nor did Shadowcat, and Blob and Angel only did limited damage. Why? Not because those figures didn't have value, but because they were in place to allow Storm to be the focal point of the offense. Even Jean, who also did a lot of damage, was there to maximize the opportunities to roll for damage for the various weather glyphs. So yes Storm did a lot of damage in my games, but if you look at in-game value as a one-to-one relationship with wounds, then every other figure in her army consistently underperformed.

That's just not the case, though. Professor X did what he was there to do and so did Angel and Blob and Jean (Shadowcat didn't do much, honestly). And in this case they very much enabled Storm to shine, and she did, but it certainly wasn't her doing alone. Take out any of those Jenga pieces, and Storm's impact starts precipitously dropping.

Which is why, in those cases, the overall results of my games say more, IMO.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #130  
Old November 16th, 2019, 08:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

I agree that wounds put out isn't a 1:1 way to analyze results, but I don't think W:L ratio is, either. Just because you lose twice at 290 doesn't mean you weren't worth 290 in that game, you know?

Like, looking at those results, yes, she did overperform in some games, like Game 3 and Game 6. What stood out to me is that she never really UNDERperformed - that she's consistently worth 270 and often worth more. Usually you at least have a game or two where the dice weren't there, you got a bad roll, things just didn't come together. Looking at it all lined up, Game 4 and Game 7 aren't as impressive as they seemed in first blush, so maybe she did and I was just dazzled by the sheer numerical output in some of them.

In general this is a card with a lot of hardware that does a lot of things and I've always been wary of that, balance-wise. I'm not really good at intuiting the value of cards, though, so I have no problem trusting people who are.
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  #131  
Old November 16th, 2019, 09:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

I still feel pretty good at 270 given all the results, and this also fills a currently unrepresented point value for the Mutants. I also trust Bats' take as he's usually one to spot when someone is coming in higher, as well as all others who voted.

Looks like this passes.
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  #132  
Old November 16th, 2019, 09:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Storm (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

I mean, fwiw, I think she's draftable anywhere from 260-290, so 270 is probably near the bottom range of that. She's powerful but not broken, as far as I can tell.

But, yeah, a ton of board control and influence at her cost for sure.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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