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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #49  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 03:40 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

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Originally Posted by tcglkn View Post
What if he started the game with an Avengers Marker (not on his card so unsure how to word it), and when a figure deals a wound, he places an Avengers Marker and that starts his rivalry power?
Seems like it could be a delayed reaction, where if you are struggling to deal and wounds for some reason Hulk is just sulking in the SZ. In the end it's really only a delay of one successful attack, since he can't use the power if you are not landing hits either, but I'd rather have him jumping into the action as quickly as possible.

This comment from Nobody earlier resonates with me:

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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Part of what I want to see in an Avengers Hulk (or Rival Hulk, I guess) is that sense of constant action. He's not waiting for you to reveal OMs on him or anything like that, he's just going. To that end, I think it would probably even make sense if the power was a MUST instead of a MAY, just to get a tad of that uncontrollable Hulk theme down.
I like how both he and Tony want the X, as for me that shows how he's a little out of control while Tony is a bit of a control freak. Thinking about making it a must power. Then it's not so much a tactical response, most likely is still helps you out, but maybe sometimes the only guy in range of Hulk is a single Street Thug and you kind of wasted the turn having him smash a minor goon into dust.
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  #50  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 03:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

I like the idea of it as a "must" power. Seems right for the theme.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #51  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 03:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I don't understand how "B" is happening here at all. If you want an Avengers Hulk that gives out Avengers markers, how does this take prevent you from doing that?
I mean, people are resistant enough to a Marker Hulk now. If we have a Hulk design that interacts with Markers but doesn't match the "true" aesthetic, I see double that resistance to getting a "true" Avengers Hulk done.

I like the change to must, YK. If we wanted to go even further, I could see him forcibly burning OMs on other character's cards to take turns for himself. That might be too crazy though.
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  #52  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 03:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
I guess I just don't get why you guys would at all want a Hulk that wants to play with Avengers armies 95% of the time but don't want an Avengers Hulk.

A regular Rival Hulk would play with the Avengers just fine without (A) roping him into being an Avengers-based unit and (B) blocking off design space for a future Hulk that does use the established Avengers mechanics and aesthetics in the "proper" way.
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I don't understand how "B" is happening here at all. If you want an Avengers Hulk that gives out Avengers markers, how does this take prevent you from doing that?
Yeah, if you want to make a full on Avengers Hulk card this design doesn't prevent you from doing so in any way. You can't draft them both together, so pick one based on how the other powers work.

Johnny's earlier comment about the OM reveal requirement needed for bonding has put my all Avengers team concern in perspective. I don't think he will want to play with Avengers Cap 95% of the time. If he can only get one 'free' bonding per round, having Avengers markers on 5 units isn't as big of a deal as I was thinking it was before. You still want his rival to be someone who you expect to get score that W for you that is required to trigger the power. The extra Avengers hanging around just now serve as fail safes if Thor whiffs. Helpful no doubt, but not sure it dictates a must draft 95% of the time. Maybe more like a 70/30 split?

Making it a must power would further balance the with or without other Avengers. Then having more markers in play makes it more likely to trigger the bonding turn when you don't want to use it. That might bring it down to more of a 50/50 split. Having Avengers allies around both helps and hurts you, so you are just as good with as without them.

I think I just convinced myself to update to must.
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  #53  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 03:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

Alright this is where I've landed.

HULK BEST THERE IS!
At the start of the game, you may choose one other Unique Hero you control to be Hulk's Rival. After revealing an Order Marker on the card of Hulk's Rival, or a Unique Hero with an Avengers Marker on its card, and taking a turn with that Hero, if that figure inflicted one or more wounds, you must immediately reveal an Order Marker on this card, if able, and take a turn with the Hulk. When you do, you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.

Do I need to specify 'Unique Hero' for the Avengers Marker call out. Couldn't remember if Event Heroes could get them or not. Common heroes?
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  #54  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 03:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

I know I'm probably repeating myself at this point...but the version you just put in the OP is so close to being an official Avengers version. Like the only reason it isn't is just because we're saying it's not. It plays like an Avengers version, it barks like an Avengers version...it's just crazy to me that we're jumping through hoops here to make it not an Avengers version.
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  #55  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 04:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

It's crazy to me that you are jumping through hoops to have a cow over him handing out one avengers marker or none. It's not like we have a shortage of Avengers Markers floating around. 5 on Cap, 4 on IM, 3 on Hawk, 2 on Ms. Marvel, 2 on CapSam, 1 on Wasp. That's 17 right there on 6 different cards. If you are struggling to make Avengers teams with enough makers for everyone at this point, 1 more marker isn't going to help you. Black Panther II could hand out 3-4, Black Widow II maybe 2-3, those would have a bigger impact than 1 maker from Hulk. Make those designs a priority for you.

At the end of the day, it just doesn't feel right to me for Hulk to be handing out any Avengers Markers at all. He isn't going out recruiting anyone for the team. He's a reluctant, anti-social member. He'll tag along and help out, but he's not part of the leadership council in any way.
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  #56  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 04:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

Sorry for using the word crazy. That was unnecessarily hostile on my part, and I apologize.

It's not about having trouble reaching the right marker count. It's more about the fact that if I want to draft 2 Avengers characters in a wider army, Hulk handing out a marker has a big difference gameplay-wise. Sure, I could draft Avengers Black Panther to get more markers, but that kind of defeats the point of just drafting a 2 Avenger.

Gameplay-wise, in an Avengers build that already has enough markers, Hulk is functionally identical to an Avengers Hulk. And in ones where there aren't enough to go around (like Wasp+Hulk) he's still functionally adding an Avengers Marker for himself, but not for Wasp. And is that thematic? Yeah, sure I can see that. But it's a break from the established Avengers mechanic and I personally feel it brings a lot less to the table army-building wise.

I feel like Johnny said it better (and calmer) than me;
Quote:
If the goal is "Hulk that is an Avenger," letting him work with the Avengers but not BE an Avenger, where being an Avenger is represented by giving out Avengers Markers, is just kind of a no-win situation. People who don't really want Avenger Hulk are stuck with the Marker callout, people who do want an Avengers Hulk don't get one - not really.
We're making an Avengers Hulk that just doesn't match the aesthetics of how Avengers work in our game, and takes away most of what I like about the Avengers mechanics in our game. And if we're removing the aesthetic of being an Avenger and the mechanics of being an Avenger, I really don't see the reason why we're still trying to keep a mechanical hook to the Avengers. What does that add that a generalist version doesn't?

I think I'm just going to stop looking at this thread for a bit to calm down. Apologies for getting heated.
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  #57  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 04:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
At the end of the day, it just doesn't feel right to me for Hulk to be handing out any Avengers Markers at all. He isn't going out recruiting anyone for the team. He's a reluctant, anti-social member. He'll tag along and help out, but he's not part of the leadership council in any way.
This is what sells me the most on our current direction with Hulk.
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  #58  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 05:06 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

Captain Americas (Steve and Sam), Wasp (II), Iron Man (Avengers), Ms. Marvel, and Hawkeye (III) only give Avengers Markers to Unique Heroes.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #59  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 05:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Captain Americas (Steve and Sam), Wasp (II), Iron Man (Avengers), Ms. Marvel, and Hawkeye (III) only give Avengers Markers to Unique Heroes.

Thanks. I forgot about that question amid all the other stuff. I'll drop 'Unique' then.
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  #60  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 05:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Incredible Hulk (II) - Breath

I'm planning on keeping this one moving and making the proposal once 24 hours has passed since starting the thread. I have 390 listed as just a kind of guess. Figure he might be a little better than the other Hulk cards, but not sure how much. Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on a starting place for testing? Starting to look at potential builds.

Hulk 390
Nebula 240
Red Hulk or A-Bomb 370 .....1000 is pretty appealing, but I don't want to waste time at that price point if it's way off.
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