The C3G Book of Frost Giant

[dok]

So, this ruling would apply to any power that doesn't require LoS or taking a turn on the battlefield, then? Nick Fury could still activate a hero and some agents? All Bonding squads/heroes that bond before their turn still work?

I have to admit it seems weird to me. The weirdest effect I can come up with is something I already pointed out in an ERB comment about Alternate Realities.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by dok

So, this ruling would apply to any power that doesn't require LoS or taking a turn on the battlefield, then? Nick Fury could still activate a hero and some agents? All Bonding squads/heroes that bond before their turn still work?

I have to admit it seems weird to me. The weirdest effect I can come up with is something I already pointed out in an ERB comment about Alternate Realities.

Nope. "Instead of taking a turn" does require you to be able to take a turn. "Before taking a turn" is just an indicator of timing and doesn't require you to take the turn (it's like "before moving" - you don't have to actually move). So Fury wouldn't get to bond, since he's "instead of taking a turn." Does that distinction make sense?

But any "before taking a turn" bonding would still work.

[fret_gurglo]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Nope. "Instead of taking a turn" does require you to be able to take a turn. "Before taking a turn" is just an indicator of timing and doesn't require you to take the turn (it's like "before moving" - you don't have to actually move). So Fury wouldn't get to bond, since he's "instead of taking a turn." Does that distinction make sense?

But any "before taking a turn" bonding would still work.

From this ruling I was able to compile a list of at least some powers that might still work.

Shadow Thief's Dimensiometer and Shadow Theft
Riddler's Befuddling Tactics and Riddle Me This
Joker's Reorganized Chaos and It's Just Not the Same...
Ozymandias' Smartest Man in the World
Mysterio Holograph's Holographic Projections
Mister Terrific's T-Sphere Tactics
Mister Mxyzptlk's Antagonizing Trickster
Malice's Bubble Suffocation (if the bubble is placed before she is encased in the ice rock)
Doctor Manhattan's Molecular Teleportation
Dr. Fate's Teleportation Spell

And here is a couple more that I am not so sure would still work
Chronos' Time Bandit - This one states "after taking a turn"
Skrull Infiltrator's Secret Invasion - This one requires a figure to be destroyed. A figure within the ice rock could be destroyed by rolling for Frost Bite.

[IAmBatman]

I'll have to take your word on it (since it's that or going through and looking at each power myself! ).

[fret_gurglo]

For the figures with a teleport power, what happens to the ice rock when they teleport out? Does it stay on the battlefield or is it destroyed. If it stays on the battlefield, then the Frost Giant cannot use their power again unless someone takes the time to smash it.

[IAmBatman]

Which powers involve teleporting? I took a quick look at Shadow Thief's powers, and neither of those would work, leading me to believe that you might be evaluating under false premises here.

DIMENSIOMETER triggers "after taking a turn with Shadow Thief" which would require you to actually take a turn, IMO, and SHADOW THEFT requires Shadow Thief to be on his own card and not destroyed, so it wouldn't trigger when he was frozen.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Which powers involve teleporting? I took a quick look at Shadow Thief's powers, and neither of those would work, leading me to believe that you might be evaluating under false premises here.

DIMENSIOMETER triggers "after taking a turn with Shadow Thief" which would require you to actually take a turn, IMO, and SHADOW THEFT requires Shadow Thief to be on his own card and not destroyed, so it wouldn't trigger when he was frozen.

[IAmBatman]

Likewise, Doctor Fate's TELEPORTATION SPELL wouldn't work, because Doctor Fate wouldn't be able to move and attack, and it's an "instead of moving and attacking" power, not a "before moving and attacking" power.

I'd have to look up Doctor Manhattan to check him (interestingly, if you control Doctor Manhattan, you can pretty easily just declare you're Huge or Tiny and not be frozen in the first place).

[fret_gurglo]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Which powers involve teleporting? I took a quick look at Shadow Thief's powers, and neither of those would work, leading me to believe that you might be evaluating under false premises here.

DIMENSIOMETER triggers "after taking a turn with Shadow Thief" which would require you to actually take a turn, IMO, and SHADOW THEFT requires Shadow Thief to be on his own card and not destroyed, so it wouldn't trigger when he was frozen.

If nobody else, then Mxyzplk should work as his power is activated on another figures turn.
"If you roll 17 or higher and Mister Mxyzptlk is not on the battlefield, place him on any unoccpuied space adjacent to the chosen Unique Hero."
I'm not sure if Fates Teleport would work as it says "instead of moving and attacking". Is this the same as "Instead of taking a turn"?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Originally Posted by fret_gurglo

If nobody else, then Mxyzplk should work as his power is activated on another figures turn.
"If you roll 17 or higher and Mister Mxyzptlk is not on the battlefield, place him on any unoccpuied space adjacent to the chosen Unique Hero."
I'm not sure if Fates Teleport would work as it says "instead of moving and attacking". Is this the same as "Instead of taking a turn"?

I believe the correct ruling is that, "no, it is not exactly the same." Basically, any power that allows Fate to move and attack allows him to choose to use his Teleport instead. In no way does this trigger when off the board because a) he can't get a turn (which would give him a move and attack phase), and b) he is out of clear sight and not within any range (he's off the board) to allow another player to activate him for a turn. The key here is that Mr. Fantastic's power says "before taking a turn" which designates the time immediately between reveling an OM and taking a turn, which when he arrives at that step he can't do, so he loses the turn. So the ruling is that something may take place before a lost turn, but not instead of, or during a lost turn. Make sense?

[dok]

I just feel like this is a big can of worms you are opening here for no reason. I would be more comfortable with a ruling that a card's powers only work when the figure is not on the battlefield if the power specifically states as much. Simple and clear.

[dok]

FWIW, there are a lot of other powers that either reference "before taking a turn" or don't explicitly reference taking a turn with the figure at all.

• Baron von Strucker's Intelligence Network
• Killwog's Green Lantern Leadership (although its effects will not apply, unless we're considering him "in play")
• Kingpin's Organized Crime
• Lobo's blah blah healing factor
• Mad Thinker's Mind Games
• MrF's Fantastic Leader
• Red Ghost's Red Ape Command
• Mongul's Warworld's Orbital Assault (if Mongul's champion takes a turn first)
• Mad Hatter's hat trick
• Black King's Hellfire Club Influence
• CapAm's Avengers Assemble
• Sage's Telepathic Tactician and Commander Roger's Master Tactician
• Braniac5's 12th level Intellect strategies
• Wizards Criminal Leadership
• Every normal bonding power

I'm sure there are more.