Kaemon Awa Strategy Review

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by dok

I appreciate that you appreciate my feedback Owlman, but I don't believe I've given you any w.r.t. this latest effort of yours. I am interested in the answer to the question that was asked earlier: have you played games with KA?

Dad_Scaper has been nothing but accommodating and constructive with you. If you can't see that, then the fault does not lie with Dad_Scaper. He also gave you an outstanding suggestion: rather than try to write up these strategy review clones, write up some battle reports and put them in the appropriate forum.

Foudzing has, indeed, been abrasive, and has a tendency to state opinion as fact. That's how he rolls. But he is an excellent player who has proven that repeatedly, and his insights about the game should be taken seriously.

To be fair, there are some bad nuggets of advice floating around in the history of the USRs. They are mostly solid, however. Putting down the USRs is neither a constructive forum activity, nor is it a good excuse to write flawed reviews of your own. If you really want to write reviews, I would suggest going through the path that is set out for that: write a draft, PM it to Taeblewalker, and see if it gets accepted.

While Daddy Scaper had a couple helpful tips, his post about me being an idiot for a typo makes me now want to disregard any and all future advice from him.

Foundzing? Yeah, I don't care HOW good he is. He's still posting like a know it all. No excuse.

And yes, many games with KA. He generally does ok, but last game he got slaughtered fairly early. I targeted Charos (who had lik 4-5 wounds already) and next turn, the dragon rolled over, rolled 5 skulls, and I rolled zero shields, even though I was on height. That was disappointing.

What's your experience been with him?

[dok]

Originally Posted by Owlman

While Daddy Scaper had a couple helpful tips, his post about me being an idiot for a typo makes me now want to disregard any and all future advice from him.

Perhaps the fact that he never called you an idiot might lead you to reconsider, then.

Originally Posted by Owlman

Foundzing? Yeah, I don't care HOW good he is. He's still posting like a know it all. No excuse.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good one.

Pot, meet kettle. (Give or take the part about having established oneself as a good player...)

Originally Posted by Owlman

What's your experience been with him?

Definitely very strong; not my favorite piece because I find him a bit too swingy/matchup-dependent. The one time I played Cyprien+Sonya against him, Kaemon killed Cyprien without taking a wound...

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Owlman

Does that answer your question?

Not even remotely. Pick one that you'll stick with, and we'll talk about it.

~Aldin, simply

[Crixus33]

One of the problems I keep seeing in this thread (and the other) is the use of one event as being absolute truth, primarily by Owlman. What needs to be remembered when analyzing a unit or a strategy is the limitations of memory. We tend to remember big events and cite them as fact later and base our opinions on them. When claiming kamikaze Cyprien, or any strategy, as bad because it failed in a big game for you Owlman means very little because it is only one data point in the myriad of times it has been used. To truly say it is a good or bad strategy you would have to test it multiple times on various maps with various armies. This goes with the Cyprein vs. Kaemon argument as well. Foudzing provided a table of results of the match from a probability calculator which, I assume, uses an algorithm that is essentially a short cut for running the tests out yourself and says what the percentages of results should look like. Just my on how you could improve your stance.

[Dysole]

Originally Posted by Crixus33

One of the problems I keep seeing in this thread (and the other) is the use of one event as being absolute truth, primarily by Owlman. What needs to be remembered when analyzing a unit or a strategy is the limitations of memory. We tend to remember big events and cite them as fact later and base our opinions on them. When claiming kamikaze Cyprien, or any strategy, as bad because it failed in a big game for you Owlman means very little because it is only one data point in the myriad of times it has been used. To truly say it is a good or bad strategy you would have to test it multiple times on various maps with various armies. This goes with the Cyprein vs. Kaemon argument as well. Foudzing provided a table of results of the match from a probability calculator which, I assume, uses an algorithm that is essentially a short cut for running the tests out yourself and says what the percentages of results should look like. Just my on how you could improve your stance.

Pretty sure that was me. It was done utilizing the Heroscape Matchup Calculator. While far from perfect it basically uses Wolfram Alpha to run the matchup several thousand times and then tells you what percentage victory would be at and also how much it would be depending on who goes first and what the expected wound amounts are (I excluded that information because it seemed irrelevant). It's a nice tool but it doesn't take into account maps, range vs. melee, additional figures, and a whole host of other things that could tweak any given matchup.

But that is besides your other point which is a very good one. Anecdotal evidence is great if you're trying to disprove a statement like "All cows have wings." All you need is one non-winged cow to disprove it. A statement with more nuance to it like 99% of Scape strategy comments is harder to dismiss or confirm with one recollection of something that has happened. I've killed a Krav on height with an unboosted Arrow Grut. I've watched Q9 in Raelin's aura die from 2 attacks from a Sentinel of Jandar. I've had Runa absolutely decimate a Sniper and Taelord build. None of these are the norm and it is an important thing to keep in mind that we all have our perceptions colored by certain units performing well for us.

~Dysole, who doesn't think he'd like Sudema as much if she hadn't Stoned awesomeunleashed's TBR and dok's Moltenclaw pretty much back to back

[Foudzing]

@Owlman , you don't listen a all when we talk to you politely, then you act victims when we start to be more aggresive. Are you my 3 years old cousin?

I use the Heroscape machup calculator just for heroes vs heroes duels, I don't find such programs reliable enough for other kinds of machups.

But it's certainly more reliable than 3 or 4 games played with my little sister, on a big and beautiful castle map.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Ninja Status

Owlman,

We all respect each other in this community, but when someone starts an unneeded argument (like you did in the OP when people were giving suggestions) people tend to respect that person less.

A few wise members of this website once told me that taking negative feed-back through public comments, rep, or PMs is still constructive, it's a form of someone telling you directly what you could do better and how you could improve in this community. I'd like to see you become better. Being talked down to never feels good, but telling somebody to improve what they're doing instead of giving them the "okay" only makes their effort improve as well as the final result.

In a nutshell, all feedback on this site is constructive, negative or positive, and they're all meant to help. I hope you understand that.

Thanks for the feedback. However, If I disagree with something, I'm gonna say "I disagree", even if it means starting an argument. What's wrong with debating/arguing, if it's done respectfully?

I don't mind being told "This ought to be improved." Everyone can improve at something, it's just I refuse to be talked down to. When that happens, I will defend myself.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

@Owlman , you don't listen a all when we talk to you politely, then you act victims when we start to be more aggresive. Are you my 3 years old cousin?

I use the Heroscape machup calculator just for heroes vs heroes duels, I don't find such programs reliable enough for other kinds of machups.

But it's certainly more reliable than 3 or 4 games played with my little sister, on a big and beautiful castle map.

It's victimized, matchup, etc... Get your vocabulary right.

(Now according to daddy man you're a fool, and acting like an idiot.)

When you act like an arrogant jerk, acting like you know how each and every match up will end, then yeah, I'm gonna defend myself. Get over it. I've had certain experiences with Awa, that I shared, and will share. You disagree, fine. But you wanna continue to post abrasively, be my guest. Two can play at that game.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Not even remotely. Pick one that you'll stick with, and we'll talk about it.

~Aldin, simply

Nah, I'm going with all of them. They are ALL terrible portions of the articles.

~Owlman, simply.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Crixus33

One of the problems I keep seeing in this thread (and the other) is the use of one event as being absolute truth, primarily by Owlman. What needs to be remembered when analyzing a unit or a strategy is the limitations of memory. We tend to remember big events and cite them as fact later and base our opinions on them. When claiming kamikaze Cyprien, or any strategy, as bad because it failed in a big game for you Owlman means very little because it is only one data point in the myriad of times it has been used. To truly say it is a good or bad strategy you would have to test it multiple times on various maps with various armies. This goes with the Cyprein vs. Kaemon argument as well. Foudzing provided a table of results of the match from a probability calculator which, I assume, uses an algorithm that is essentially a short cut for running the tests out yourself and says what the percentages of results should look like. Just my on how you could improve your stance.

Some good idea's here. (Except that Dysole pretty much confirmed it's unreliable.) Thanks for chiming in.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by dok

Perhaps the fact that he never called you an idiot might lead you to reconsider, then.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good one.

Pot, meet kettle. (Give or take the part about having established oneself as a good player...)

Definitely very strong; not my favorite piece because I find him a bit too swingy/matchup-dependent. The one time I played Cyprien+Sonya against him, Kaemon killed Cyprien without taking a wound...

#1: You're right, he called me a fool. Just as bad.

#2: I don't see anything funny about posting rudely.

#3: Kaemon can do that. Wish the game hadn't died, so that we coulda' gotten official Ronin characters, who can bond with Samural Heroes.

[flameslayer93]

You're telling a French dude that his English isn't perfect. Think about that for a second.

The dude even lives in France, not an English speaking country like Canada or the UK.