Public Design Workshop

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

I'm a bit concerned that the idea for compromise is to wait 2 months to complete something that could easily be done in 2 weeks. If you're busy enough that you need 2 months to complete 2 tests, why not just let(I use this term loosely as nobody has ownership over any of these designs) someone who isn't that busy run the design sooner rather than later?

I should reiterate, it's not just a matter of starting the design, sticking with and seeing the design through to the end is a factor here, and an expectation. If there is any doubt in one's ability to do that, keeping one's track record and history in mind, why even go through all this rigmarole for what could easily be LD'd by someone who's here consistently and has the time and track record to see it through? You're welcome to stop in as much as you like and give thoughts and feedback like everyone else, but I don't understand why we're complicating this.

I wanted to give her a chance to step up and become a more reliable and productive member of the project the way we were once hoping her to be, but hearing the likes of 'if I ghost' isn't encouraging...

[laughing matter]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I wanted to give her a chance to step up and become a more reliable and productive member of the project the way we were once hoping her to be, but hearing the likes of 'if I ghost' isn't encouraging...

I don't plan on it, but everyone else seems to be convinced I will. I was just trying to show that I understand their concerns, but that probably wasn't the best way to do it. In hindsight, it really makes me look like I'm expecting to just get bored and flake, doesn't it?

[Qualizium]

I can see it being interpreted either way. In real life body language and tone of voice does a lot to change how words are interpreted, but here of course we have only the words themselves.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

If not, then I do have to agree with the ‘old guard’ that you don’t have much of an exclusive hold on what happens to the character anymore.

This is not directed at you MrN, I just want to clarify this because we have several new allies. Nobody has an exclusive hold on any character or design here. Heroes have some characters drafted("reserved"), that's a privileged earned, but beyond that it's fair game. Even still, Heroes aren't opposed to giving up that draft/reserve if there's a strong desire and initiative from someone else.

However, we do respect others and their desires to design specific characters they have a write up for. But, there are circumstances that bypass that respect if habitual. Poor history of follow through, sitting on a design forever, or leaving for long stretches of time...with these all combined it's no longer necessary, IMO, to feel like you're stepping on toes by taking the design and running with it. Otherwise you have a design that essentially reaches limbo status, sitting in the equivalent of development hell, and is unlikely to see the light of day if it hinges on a singular person to lead it.

We design these characters together. We brainstorm, design, test, refine, and complete the art etc. as a team. The LD has the responsibility of seeing it through, but everyone has a say, everyone has a piece of that pie, and at the end of the day, everyone is affected by the result of the design, or lack there of. That's why it's so important to remember we make these for all of us, not just the LD.

I get wanting to be the one to LD something you're passionate about. I think we've all had designs or characters we're attached to. Nothing wrong with that, and I think we all know to not step on others' toes when possible. However, this is a case where I feel that ship has sailed, and this is more like a hostage situation where we're trying to minimize the damage.

Saying "give me 2 more months" and "if I ghost" "you can have this specific person design it because I have faith they will do the design justice"(implying others won't) are all red flags to me.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

This is not directed at you MrN, I just want to clarify this because we have several new allies. Nobody has an exclusive hold on any character or design here. Heroes have some characters drafted("reserved"), that's a privileged earned, but beyond that it's fair game. Even still, Heroes aren't opposed to giving up that draft/reserve if there's a strong desire and initiative from someone else.

However, we do respect others and their desires to design specific characters they have a write up for. But, there are circumstances that bypass that respect if habitual. Poor history of follow through, sitting on a design forever, or leaving for long stretches of time...with these all combined it's no longer necessary, IMO, to feel like you're stepping on toes by taking the design and running with it. Otherwise you have a design that essentially reaches limbo status, sitting in the equivalent of development hell, and is unlikely to see the light of day if it hinges on a singular person to lead it.

We design these characters together. We brainstorm, design, test, refine, and complete the art etc. as a team. The LD has the responsibility of seeing it through, but everyone has a say, everyone has a piece of that pie, and at the end of the day, everyone is affected by the result of the design, or lack there of. That's why it's so important to remember we make these for all of us, not just the LD.

I get wanting to be the one to LD something you're passionate about. I think we've all had designs or characters we're attached to. Nothing wrong with that, and I think we all know to not step on others' toes when possible. However, this is a case where I feel that ship has sailed, and this is more like a hostage situation where we're trying to minimize the damage.

Saying "give me 2 more months" and "if I ghost" "you can have this specific person design it because I have faith they will do the design justice"(implying others won't) are all red flags to me.

I'm inclined to agree with Arkham here. @laughing_matter, I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt here - you've been gone a while, it's entirely possible you're more responsible now than you were before, you have some really creative ideas and you could be a real asset to this project if you work on it, but you have to accept that you have used up a lot of your good will and will have to work to build that back up here. I would love to see you do that, and I personally would want to give you that chance, but you aren't helping your cause much here.

[japes]

Also just to be clear. I know for several of you recent Allies, you may be looking at this through a narrow window and not know the subtext and long histories that some of the recent discussions have come from. If you are here and you are active and participating but have to step away for real life issues for a bit, don't be concerned that someone is going to swoop in and take credit for all your hard work. This is not something we take lightly.

I LD'd a figure that sat in limbo for years and yet I still was hesitant on running her even after I was given the go ahead by the original potential LD. She wasn't active anymore but she had a personal real world connection and I went as far as to ask him to make sure she was cool with it. So no we don't just decide to take something because we want it. We all have decent lists of figures on our draft that we would like to see done so we look for opportunities to have allies run a design. Shoot I'm about to post a list of figures I have mini's for that I know I won't have time to get too soon in hopes of one of you getting inspired to run them.

So don't think the Heroes are a bunch of ruthless dictators here. We try to be as open and we can but at the same time we don't want to bring up old issues or needlessly trash anyone's chance to be better than they were. Trust that if we are hesitant on something there is probably a backstory.

I honestly hope L_M rises to the occasion but accepting a participatory role on this design while building up the reputation and running one of L_M's other drafts would say a ton about L_M's growth and character.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by japes

I honestly hope L_M rises to the occasion but accepting a participatory role on this design while building up the reputation and running one of L_M's other drafts would say a ton about L_M's growth and character.

I'd actually absolutely agree with this.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I'm inclined to agree with Arkham here. @laughing_matter, I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt here - you've been gone a while, it's entirely possible you're more responsible now than you were before, you have some really creative ideas and you could be a real asset to this project if you work on it, but you have to accept that you have used up a lot of your good will and will have to work to build that back up here. I would love to see you do that, and I personally would want to give you that chance, but you aren't helping your cause much here.

I understand where you are coming from and this is not meant to be a poke at you L_O. You just happen to be the last post.

Everyone,

Talking about L_M's past deeds isn't helpful to anyone and may feel like dog piling at this point. L_M is aware of the situations and is welcome comment here or privately if L_M would like more explanation on why we feel the way we do. I think we just need to move on and allow L_M the opportunity to show growth and team spirit. Let Constantine go but be really involved in the process while building up some points and starting one of your other designs. I remember you having several great ideas.

[MrNobody]

I second that l_m has excellent ideas. I think we share an interest in early Vertigo stuff, which I think is a really cool section of comics that hasn’t really been touched on all that much yet. I would really like to brainstorm with you more on that, if it’s something you’re interested in doing.

[japes]

Nice, MrN, I like the positivity. Lets start there.

[laughing matter]

I think I put the wrong foot forward here. I'm sorry, I just put a lot of work into the design and was a bit attached to it. Naturally. I'll let him go to the public. I'm hungry to prove myself again, and I would still love to LD Constantine, but I understand that my record has spoken for itself. Whoever grabs him first can run with the design. Although, If no one else has begun LD'ing him by the time I get enough points, I do intend on shooting my shot. Still, even if I don't get the opportunity to LD, I will be nothing but helpful in the process of seeing that this character gets his long overdue induction into the C3G pantheon.

[MrNobody]

Hey, if you put the wrong foot forward, it follows that the next step you take will be with the right foot.

Fwiw, I don’t think you’ve honestly done anything terrible here anyways.