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  #37  
Old May 9th, 2018, 10:48 AM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I was actually going to share my own rankings pretty soon haha, you beat me to it, i think it's a good idea to share personal rankings. . I'll post them soon, im almost done ranking and tinkering everything.

One thing that perplexes me about yours is Laglor. What's the reasoning for him so low? I think he's damn good, I put him at an A (maybe A- if the map pool really sucks for him).

I like how you bump MW to A+ I agree
Laglor is... cute. His aura is good, but he's a single attack per turn hero with a bad special at 110 points. That's expensive.

The reason Atlaga and Concan are higher than him is that they fill in a nice point slot where there aren't a whole to of other options, especially if you only have room for one or two more figures. Once you hit 100, the options really start to open up.

He's also a "win more" figure, so to speak. He doesn't help a Vydar range army's bad matchups; instead, he makes their good matchups (marginally) better, as well as the mirror.

Finally, he hasn't won anything noteworthy in years (Team Tourney doesn't count). If he's an A, why does nobody play him? Win a few events with him at GC and I'll bump him up . I value results over everything.

Laglor is, at best, a weak B+. I see him more as a middling-B.
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  #38  
Old May 9th, 2018, 12:24 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
(Team Tourney doesn't count).
For good reason! But excluding Team Tourney considerations for Laglor does mean you aren't considering the one format in which he outshines all: his aura (for those of you who don't know already) affects friendly figures, and not just figures you control. So it boosts your allies. Off the top of my head I think it's the only aura like that in the game; I am sure others will correct me if I'm wrong.

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  #39  
Old May 9th, 2018, 01:58 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
(Team Tourney doesn't count).
For good reason! But excluding Team Tourney considerations for Laglor does mean you aren't considering the one format in which he outshines all: his aura (for those of you who don't know already) affects friendly figures, and not just figures you control. So it boosts your allies. Off the top of my head I think it's the only aura like that in the game; I am sure others will correct me if I'm wrong.
The Orc champions are the same way (but Orcs vs Vydar range is... rough).

That aside, the only real reason he's so good in Team Tourney is simply that he helps in the mirror. 110 points is a lot, and I think I'd rather add a Q9 killer like Minions; however, if they have Laglor and you don't, you might be in a bit of trouble.
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  #40  
Old May 9th, 2018, 02:06 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

How do I get the Elves moved up? I am 7-2 at Gencon with the 600 point elf army (Ulginesh/Raelin/Jorhdawn/Chardris/Arkmer/Kyntela/Morsbane) against mostly real competitive armies. I think B+ or A- is probably right for Elves if you know what you are doing; they are definitely favored against armies made of B+ figures, especially with figure limits which don't constrain them at all. The only really bad matchup they have is Raelin-backed Krav
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  #41  
Old May 9th, 2018, 03:48 PM
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O Rly?

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Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
How do I get the Elves moved up? I am 7-2 at Gencon with the 600 point elf army (Ulginesh/Raelin/Jorhdawn/Chardris/Arkmer/Kyntela/Morsbane) against mostly real competitive armies. I think B+ or A- is probably right for Elves if you know what you are doing; they are definitely favored against armies made of B+ figures, especially with figure limits which don't constrain them at all. The only really bad matchup they have is Raelin-backed Krav
And yet you somehow beat that. Must've been the death stalkers fault. (Truthfully, I think that was the game where I made the most dumb moves with the Krav).

I could easily see the elves being B+ but I'm not so sure about A- (well Acolarh still sucks and I'm not so sure the army needs Emirroon all that much but the rest sure)

~Dysole, who thinks that elves biggest constraint is they get worse as point totals decrease
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  #42  
Old May 9th, 2018, 05:12 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I'm 3-2 against Raelin backed Krav with Elves I think (wins over you, The Orange Mailman, and Deroche, losses to R˙chean and videosayg), but they were huge factors in every one and I was probably on the luckier side to win three of those five. I was probably on the unluckier side to face Raelin-backed Krav in more than half of my games with the Elves though.

I agree that Elves are pretty bad below 500. To be honest I don't think they are very good above 700 though either. I don't think there's too much value in Warriors of Ashra as a screen or Sonlen as a healer or whatever for 1000 point Elf armies; other 1000 points are better. Elves are kind of a sweet spot point army, which I guess is hard to rate because there isn't anything else like it. Other armies have small or big versions of their optimal size.

I used to be very anti-Emirroon and I still am but not as much. He is definitely not good if you are using him to rush your elf army to a set pod spot, but he's still a Wizard and he's good for soaking damage, and you can pull off some unexpected plays to protect your other Wizards with the teleportation.
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  #43  
Old May 9th, 2018, 05:34 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Veggie, since i played you that year, I have abandoned all Emiroon builds when I play elf wizards, subbing in Raelin. More so to get used to not trying to make him work, focusing on set up with raelin and getting the 3 elf hitters set up.

I played a 490 over the weekend with Rae, Ugly, Chardis, Jordawn, Arkmer, and Gwyn took down Concan, 3PKs, 2x Mindflayer.

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  #44  
Old May 9th, 2018, 07:23 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I'll probably bump up the elves to B. I don't think they're that amazing even in their best build/sweet spot, but they're good. This is also the reason Capuans are B FWIW.
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  #45  
Old May 9th, 2018, 07:30 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Also, just got off the phone with infected sloth, and I'm now convinced that Marcu is probably a solid A, and Pulverizer is a B+.
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  #46  
Old May 9th, 2018, 07:48 PM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
I'll just comment on the movers. Let's start debates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post

S
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80, A+) eh I guess since she makes everything better, but I don't think she's game warping enough for a separate tier

A+
Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) Pretty much the go to option if you have 20 points left but at the same time "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal". I don't think wannok does enough for a letter grade upgrade
Marro Warriors (50, A)
Easily one of the best units in the game and in non timed games, can beat many units they shouldn't on stats alone. I would rather give them to an opponent than Q but after that, no way. Do have some bad matchups. Not quite sure they're an A+ but I'll buy it

A
10th Regiment of Foot (75*, A-)4th are still better. :P
Me-Burq-Sa (50, A-) Was legitimately surprised was not an A unit
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50, A-)Orc Raelin is boss
Nilfheim (185, A-)
See MBS

A-
Blade Gruts (40*, B) Eh... I think they're more B+ since they have to work a lot harder to crack a sturdy defense.
Eltahale (140, B+)See MBS and Nilf
Mezzodemon Warmongers (65*, B+) Even a single special attack can wreck them, but they are brutal if you don't have one
Ogre Pulverizer (100+, B+) I don't think the Chasers do enough for bonding option 3
Roman Legionnaires (50*, B+)See the marro, dragon, and Goliath

B+
Arrow Gruts (40*, B) Have not played with them enough but always seem to come highly recommended
Ashigaru Harquebus (60*, B-)
One of my faves. Make your own 4th. Add Raelin. Wait. Then fire.
Atlaga (90, A-)
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80, B) I probably wouldn't bring either Kyrie to an event but I'd probably bring Atlaga before Concan because range and 7 move Raelin.
Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30, A-) This guy is an amazing early glyph grabber. Should be put back where he was.
Fire Elemental (35*, A-) Mostly because we can't all be dok and have 18 of them right? 4/4 with auto wound? I don't follow this one.
Frost Giant of Morh (140+, C+) Not a C+, but I think just a B instead of a B+. 140 is a lot of points.
MacDirk Warriors (80*, C+)2 defense is brutal and I think that keeps them in B/B- territory
Marro Dividers (50*, A-) Still love running these against zombies. Will induce frustration. A little surprised they weren't already here.
Minions of Utgar (110*, A-) I never like facing minions because they can be devastating. Conversely, they can annoyingly whiff on two dice a lot.
Nakita Agents (120, B) They're good tech, but I thought they were fine at B
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120, B) I dunno. Unless I'm doing bring 2 swarm Rae tends to be hard for me to justify.
Sentinels of Jandar (110*, A-) I actually think they're worse than minions because more powers bypass defense.
Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170, A-) You are a dude. This is a man. Nuff said.
Sonya Esenwein (45, A-)
Huh. Yeah point totals do tend to make her less of an auto include.
Swog Rider (25*, B)
Tarn Viking Warriors (50, C+)
Why do I keep getting surprised by units not where I thought they were already?
Warriors of Ashra (50*, B) Range vulnerability but again already thought they were here


B
Capuan Gladiators (70*, B+) I always worry about how few of these guys I have to play. This feels right.
Crixus (90, B+) I feel like he's a very cheap very hard to kill beat stick. Definitely take him over several heroes you have ahead
Drow Chainfighter (25*, B-) Agreed. Unit responsible for the most disappointing 8 of my life.
Fyorlag Spiders (40*, C+)
I don't see it with no Quahon available
Kozuke Samurai (100, B-) Did not realize how fun this unit was until last Gencon. Agreed.
Laglor (110, A) 7 range, SA, makes krav better, what am I missing?
Ornak (100, B-) So many units in places I thought they were
Othkurik the Black Dragon (140, B+) Yeah, nice tech but nothing special
Otonashi (10, C+) Really hard to compare to Isamu. Like a lot more for RtW
Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110, B+) Brutal against some armies but I agree with this
Sir Denrick (100, B-) Eh feels fairly mediocre to me.
Sir Hawthorne (90, B+) Dude is cheap and has a special attack. Feel like this is better than Denrick
Sonlen (160, B-)
Spartacus (200, B+)
Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80, B-)
Tornak (100, C+)
Screw it. Clearly my life and the rankings are a lie.
Valguard (110, C+) Personally, I feel like this is one of the most underrated units
Warforged Soldiers (80*, B+) They have always performed well for me and can be brutal in some matchups
Wyvern (100+, B-) I don't see it. Bond with an okay squad and their positioning power is okay and they don't have high survivability.

B-
James Murphy (75, B)
 I guess although he's better than shotgun
Shurrak (160, B)
Siege (120, B)
I love the fire giant and enjoy the warforged but yeah
Wolves of Badru (80*, C+) 3 defense and points make it hard for me to agree

C+
Mind Flayer Mastermind (100+, C) Agree. Still mad at the fire isles game I got no enslaves.


C
Templar Cavalry (120*, C-) They're really vulnerable to range. I don't see it.
Warden 816 (90, C-) I guess. I actually feel he's at least C+

C-
Sudema (140, C) NOOOO my favorite unit. I do agree though (also she's not deleted from the C's)

D
Roman Archers (55*, C-) I actually think Roman archers and Raelin is better than you give it credit for. They're not good against squads but 6 range attack of 6 will end heroes. Biggest weakness is the engagement clause.

~Dysole, who didn't check to see if she'd change anyone you didn't move
A lot here. Not going to have the time right now but I will get to the points of contention! Thanks for all the input, it's great!
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  #47  
Old May 10th, 2018, 01:50 AM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I was actually going to share my own rankings pretty soon haha, you beat me to it, i think it's a good idea to share personal rankings. . I'll post them soon, im almost done ranking and tinkering everything.

One thing that perplexes me about yours is Laglor. What's the reasoning for him so low? I think he's damn good, I put him at an A (maybe A- if the map pool really sucks for him).

I like how you bump MW to A+ I agree
Laglor is... cute. His aura is good, but he's a single attack per turn hero with a bad special at 110 points. That's expensive.

The reason Atlaga and Concan are higher than him is that they fill in a nice point slot where there aren't a whole to of other options, especially if you only have room for one or two more figures. Once you hit 100, the options really start to open up.

He's also a "win more" figure, so to speak. He doesn't help a Vydar range army's bad matchups; instead, he makes their good matchups (marginally) better, as well as the mirror.

Finally, he hasn't won anything noteworthy in years (Team Tourney doesn't count). If he's an A, why does nobody play him? Win a few events with him at GC and I'll bump him up . I value results over everything.

Laglor is, at best, a weak B+. I see him more as a middling-B.
He makes Krav nuts. Sit in/around your start zone and force your opponent to come to you even harder. Works with Q9 and Q10 as well, and forcing your opponent to come close and componsate position to Q's is nasty. And any combination of the three of course. Works with Trons too, keeps Blasts even farther back and safer. Those are four/five of the best units in the game, and he makes them better. Agent Skahen's a great unit too.

He has a 7 range SA that can hit multiple times. He's a phenominal cleanup figure, which you're very most likely going to have him for. He also has 6 life (w/ 3 def). 110pt. is really not that expensive, it's not like he's Taelord @ 180.

He also works with Microcorp and Nakitas, which aren't bad units at all.

I don't see him being any lower than an A-. Also just because he's underplayed is a lame argument to push him down, I think Mohicans are underplayed but it doesn't make them any worse at what they are (~B+). Trons are almost always underplayed, but they're no question top tier.

I'm lost at what's 'average' about this figure, Laglor's really good haha

Last edited by Cleon; May 10th, 2018 at 02:05 AM.
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  #48  
Old May 10th, 2018, 09:56 AM
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Re: Orc's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
He makes Krav nuts. Sit in/around your start zone and force your opponent to come to you even harder. Works with Q9 and Q10 as well, and forcing your opponent to come close and componsate position to Q's is nasty. And any combination of the three of course.
Sure. It's good. I'm not convinced Laglor provides close to the value of 3x Rats or Hydra in a Vydar Range Build.

Quote:
Works with Trons too, keeps Blasts even farther back and safer. Those are four/five of the best units in the game, and he makes them better. Agent Skahen's a great unit too.
Love Skahen, she's solid.

As for Trons, read the companion piece. They aren't close to the best in the current meta; contemplating dropping them to A-. They're not even close to Dwarves or Greenscales in the current meta.

Quote:
He has a 7 range SA that can hit multiple times.
Inconsistent at best. It lacks damage output.

Quote:
He's a phenominal cleanup figure, which you're very most likely going to have him for. He also has 6 life (w/ 3 def). 110pt. is really not that expensive, it's not like he's Taelord @ 180.
Agreed that he is solid stat-wise. 110 is expensive in the meta; read the companion piece.

Quote:
He also works with Microcorp and Nakitas, which aren't bad units at all.
Sure...? Not sure what exactly this proves.

Quote:
I don't see him being any lower than an A-.
Because you didn't read my companion piece.

Quote:
Also just because he's underplayed is a lame argument to push him down, I think Mohicans are underplayed but it doesn't make them any worse at what they are (~B+).
Agreed, but that's because they are a B+. If a unit is an A or A-, it will be played, and it will win events. Laglor is not played and does not win events.

Quote:
Trons are almost always underplayed, but they're no question top tier.
Actually, it's very questionable in the current meta. Again, read the companion piece.

Quote:
I'm lost at what's 'average' about this figure, Laglor's really good haha
Did I mention I have a companion piece?

It seems like you're valuing him at A in higher point, higher hex games. I don't care about those in these rankings. This is simply based on cost efficiency and consistency in the current meta.
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