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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #193  
Old April 13th, 2021, 04:16 PM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Pelloth's rating badly bothers me lol. I think simply being a ranged figure with a decent ranged attack and an unblockable special (sort of ranged) attack makes him far better than a D rating.

I don't think he is that matchup/terrain dependent. His shadow thorian trick is cool but not really his main use. Sure, he is terrible against swarms, but swarms are basically never truly effectively played at tournaments anyways.

Being able to Lloth's path a hole through an unbreaking melee line is very underrated though. How many players use a sentinel/minion/Gladiatron screen to protect their mains? Pelloth has a pretty solid chance at just ripping a hole through whatever it is in one turn.

Sure he is 100 points, and some figures can do it for cheaper, but D?... Idk, he seems a lot more useful than most of the C- units.

Then again lately I've been playing the drow a lot so there's also that. But then again, maybe that adds to my case lol.

Last edited by DoomCarrot; April 13th, 2021 at 05:44 PM.
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  #194  
Old April 28th, 2021, 05:08 PM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

The problem with Pelloth, and his SA in particular, is the amount of setup you need for a pretty middling payoff. First you need other Drow in your army, and none of them are particularly good (and all at least partially terrain dependent) Next you need to get those Drow into position BEFORE taking Pelloth’s turn, potentially giving you opponent a turn to react to your plans. Then you get to actually roll some dice! Sweet! Except you’re only rolling 3... Yeah they don’t roll defence and you divide the damage after rolling, but with 3 dice you’re gonna whiff more than you’d like. And do you know what’s gonna make those whiffs hurt reeeeaaal bad? Paying 20-25 points for the privilege. But not just points in the abstract, points that you have spent OMs getting within 2 spaces of something high enough priority to target with this attack in the first place, which inherently means those figures are in a tactically important position.
I think it’s tempting to look at the unblockable attack dice, which are admittedly quite tasty, but there are so many layers of downside, both written on the card and not, that combined with the uninspiring stat line and terrain-specific second special, a D feels spot on.
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  #195  
Old April 29th, 2021, 08:27 AM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Rolling 3 dice you would get 1.5 skulls on average, which if taken conservatively is 1. To be able to make the point sacrifice worth it you would need to do 23 points (round to 25) of damage (taking the Deepwurm Drow as the sacrifice as they cost the least in points). This means at a minimum you need to with your one unblockable damage is:
  • Destroy a squad figure of 2 taking up 50 points or more
  • Destroy a squad figure of 3 taking up 70 points or more
  • Destroy a squad figure of 4 taking up 100 points or more
  • Destroy a hero taking up 25 points or more

Looking at the numbers here it seems the easiest to get your points back by taking out squads as a hero at 1 life most likely wouldn't be in range in the first place.

To take the analysis liberally take the 1.5, round up to 2, and double the damage/destroyed figures and half the points required listed above. For example you would get your points back by taking out 2 squad figures of a squad of 2 totaling 25 points. Looks better but won't happen on a consistent basis.

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  #196  
Old April 29th, 2021, 07:52 PM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

I did some re-shuffling. Honestly, I think I need to sit down with all the (physical) cards this summer and sort them that way- a clean look at everything. I doubt much will change for the breakpoint of B+/A- with regards to the Three Headed Hydra event, but I feel like I need to completely redo B- and lower.
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  #197  
Old May 2nd, 2021, 11:15 PM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Also Chainfighters are like two tiers higher on Stygian Rift
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  #198  
Old May 3rd, 2021, 04:08 PM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Sonya has been dropped to B+, Fire Elemental has been raised to A-, and Kurrok has been dropped to B.
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  #199  
Old May 3rd, 2021, 09:01 PM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
I did some re-shuffling. Honestly, I think I need to sit down with all the (physical) cards this summer and sort them that way- a clean look at everything. I doubt much will change for the breakpoint of B+/A- with regards to the Three Headed Hydra event, but I feel like I need to completely redo B- and lower.
I already started building armies a while ago. Why are you like this.


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  #200  
Old May 3rd, 2021, 10:51 PM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
I did some re-shuffling. Honestly, I think I need to sit down with all the (physical) cards this summer and sort them that way- a clean look at everything. I doubt much will change for the breakpoint of B+/A- with regards to the Three Headed Hydra event, but I feel like I need to completely redo B- and lower.
I already started building armies a while ago. Why are you like this.
Lol, again, I feel pretty confident in the current B+/A- split. However, post-finals, I can really start working on armies, which will reveal whether Iíve overlooked any major flaws (like Firestorm).
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  #201  
Old May 4th, 2021, 07:57 AM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Fire Elemental has been raised to A-, and Kurrok has been dropped to B.
What were your reasons for this? It seems very weird to me to have Kurrok and the Fire Elemental in separate tiers considering that 99% of the time you aren't taking one without the other. I get that the fire elementals themselves are what makes Firestorm so good and Kurrok is definitely the weak part of that army. However, since each unit is basically 100% essential to the other's viability, I don't think it makes sense to rank them in anything but the same tier.

There is precedence with Arkmer to rank the core components of an army individually according to their own strengths. However, my understanding of why Arkmer is B+ but Ulginesh is B tier is because Arkmer has a lot of merit outside of Elf Wizard armies as a 50 point filler unit, particularly in armies that have Raelin or the spare points to run Kyntela Gwyn, whereas Ulginesh is only good in full Elf Wizard builds, which themselves are about B tier in terms of power level. Unlike Arkmer, Fire Elementals are only ever ran in conjunction with Kurrok (to the best of my knowledge). As such, I would have thought that they should both be in the same tier, i.e. either A- or B+ depending on how you view the overall viability of Firestorm in the current meta.
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  #202  
Old May 4th, 2021, 08:02 AM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

I think the rationale is mainly based on Firestorm being perceived as too strong for the B+ & under 3 Headed Hydra event at ScapeCon. So Fire Elementals are bumped up to make them ineglibable.

And in order to keep the overall army at the same power ranking level you have to bump one figure down. So Kurrok went down.

That'd be my guess at least.
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  #203  
Old May 4th, 2021, 09:41 AM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Perkins View Post
I think the rationale is mainly based on Firestorm being perceived as too strong for the B+ & under 3 Headed Hydra event at ScapeCon. So Fire Elementals are bumped up to make them ineglibable.

And in order to keep the overall army at the same power ranking level you have to bump one figure down. So Kurrok went down.

That'd be my guess at least.
Wouldn't it just make more sense to ban the Fire Elementals if they are deemed too strong for that event? It's something that's been done before, albeit in the heroes-only format rather than a B+ and under event.

Like, if you think a unit is going to be too strong for an event that you have coming up, just ban the unit from that event. Don't unnecessarily modify a resource that's commonly used by newer members of the community, especially when doing so creates other problems in the rankings like Kurrok and the Fire Elementals no longer being in the same tier.
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  #204  
Old May 4th, 2021, 10:05 AM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

This change isn’t just for ScapeCon. I haven’t had coffee yet, so expect a full reply in an hour or so.

Last edited by OEAO; May 4th, 2021 at 10:35 AM. Reason: I have an excellent idea... or a terrible idea... regardless, it’ll be worth the wait.
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