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  #13  
Old June 11th, 2015, 07:20 PM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

With actually seeing the ponds implemented I like it.

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
The large tree base is slightly larger than the 4 hexes it sits on, which is only an issue when you try to surround it with other tiles. So while you can force it into it's spot, it leaves everything just a little unsettled and a few tiles off set. So I went ahead and used some of the extra single grass tiles to build up a base for all the trees. The tree are in the same exact spots, just one level higher.
Yeah, I remember that being a bit of an issue when I played on it before.

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The other thing I noticed is that the forward most position in each start zone is exactly 6 spaces away from the top of the fountain. We have a lot of 6 flying ranged units in C3G now so from a competitive standpoint I think this is a problem. Whoever wins initiative just zooms out to take up high ground in the center of the board on OM1 of round 1.
I don't see how this is an issue. It's the same height as the other two single hex perches that are nearby, and the same as the outer heights. There are lots of maps where flying ranged figures can quickly grab a good spot, this one is no worse then any of those.

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  #14  
Old June 11th, 2015, 08:47 PM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

OP updated with pic and VS file.

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I discovered a few issues though. The large tree base is slightly larger than the 4 hexes it sits on, which is only an issue when you try to surround it with other tiles. So while you can force it into it's spot, it leaves everything just a little unsettled and a few tiles off set. So I went ahead and used some of the extra single grass tiles to build up a base for all the trees. The tree are in the same exact spots, just one level higher.
Yeah, I raised the big tree.
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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
The other thing I noticed is that the forward most position in each start zone is exactly 6 spaces away from the top of the fountain. We have a lot of 6 flying ranged units in C3G now so from a competitive standpoint I think this is a problem. Whoever wins initiative just zooms out to take up high ground in the center of the board on OM1 of round 1. My quick and dirty solution was to use the left over 7 hex concrete tiles to replace the forward asphalt tiles, then move the asphalt tiles & start zone spaces back to the street. There may be a better solution but here is the VS file of the changes I made so you can see what it looks like. The each start zone is now 9 hexes away from the center of the board as well as the other two single hexes of high ground on either side of the fountain.
I don't see this as a problem, there are a total (including the middle one) 11 spaces on that height, so I don't see the middle space being better than the other spaces on the same level.

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  #15  
Old June 11th, 2015, 09:17 PM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

I agree that the six move to get to the center is not a problem. I don't really see anything I would do to improve this map.

As for names, here's an idea. In the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes RPG they had a map of New York City, and they included a park called Rathbone Park. That's a bit obscure, but it could work for a name. Central Park could work too because there are a number of ponds there.

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  #16  
Old June 11th, 2015, 09:29 PM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

If nobody else thinks it's a problem we can send it out for play testing like that and see what the games show us.
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  #17  
Old June 11th, 2015, 11:59 PM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

Conflict Chernobyl is a map with close start zones and the two start zones are 14 spaces apart. The top of the two start zones are only 12 spaces apart here. I'm just a little concerned that is too close for a competitive game. These are the units I see that could move out and attack the other teams start zone on OM1, round 1 with a normal attack from high ground.

Living Laser - Move 10 Range 5 Flying Attack 3
Silver Surfer - Move 8 Range 5 Flying Attack 6
Doctor Manhattan - Move 7 Range 7 Flying Attack 7
Gentlemen Ghost - Move 7 Range 5 Flying Attack 3
Lex Luther (Battle Suit) - Move 7 Range 5 Flying Attack 4
Meteorite - Move 7 Range 5 Flying Attack 5
Capt. Marvel (Genis-Vell) - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 4
Capt. Marvel (Mar-Vell) - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 5
Count Vertigo - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 4
Doctor Doom - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 5
Firebrand - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 4
Human Torch - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 4
Iron Man (Stealth Suit) - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 4
Iron Man (Marvel) - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 4 (Double Attack)
Thanos - Move 6 Range 6 Flying Attack 6
Green Arrow - Move 5 Range 10 Attack 4
Red Arrow - Move 5 Range 10 Attack 4
Hawkeye - Move 5 Range 9 Attack 3
Hawkeye II - Move 5 Range 9 Flying Attack 4
Magneto - Move 5 Range 7 Flying Attack 5
Magneto II - Move 5 Range 7 Flying Attack 5
Green Construct (Helicopter Gunship) - Move 4 Range 7 Flying Attack 4 (placed 3 spaces away to start)

Then there is the option with Hawkeye II flying out 5 spaces and dropping a passenger off onto the center hex, who then gets to attack right away. Some of the best choices as a passenger would be:

Cable - Range 7 Attack 4 (Double Attack & Sighting for 2 att. of 6)
Deadpool - Range 6 Attack 4 (Double Attack for 2 att. of 5)
Deadshot - Range 7 Attack 4 (Sniper Targeting +3 Range, +1 skull)
Punisher - Range 7 Attack 4 (Assault Rifle for 3 att. of 5,4,3)
SHIELD Sniper - Range 9 Attack 2 (Deadly Shot for an att. of 3 w/double skulls)
Merlyn - Range 8 Attack 2 (Deadly Shot for an att. of 3 w/double skulls)

There might be a few more units that can move up and use a SA that reaches the opponents start zone on OM1 of round 1, but then the high ground bonus does not come into play at all.

Last edited by Yodaking; June 12th, 2015 at 03:10 AM.
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  #18  
Old June 12th, 2015, 09:36 AM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

I'd like to see the idea you had for increasing the distance. If you can get me a VS file of that version I will look into it this weekend.
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  #19  
Old June 12th, 2015, 10:20 AM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

The 12 spaces apart is only if you go from wrap around to wrap around, 1 team can sit at the front of their startzone and the other team in the wrap around with them being 15 spaces apart. So I don't really see a big problem here, and there are multiple maps the Hawkeye II and a startzone-bomber can do hit you the first OM. I'm not just theoryscaping here, I playtested Mr. Sinister on this map, and he's one that like having time so he can place markers, and I got him to place 5 markers 1 game on this map.

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  #20  
Old June 12th, 2015, 10:58 AM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

You're absolutely right that there are a lot of units that can take a shot on OM1. But this isn't the only map that figures can do that on; every single figure you just listed can also do that on Alkali Lake, which is a map that 8+ move melee flyers can also get an attack on OM1. Most of those figures (at least the deadliest ones/combos) can also do the same thing on Grundy's Grave, Conflict Chernobyl, HYDRA Base, and Island Plane Crash.

And as ZJ pointed out, you can always place your figures a little farther back if you're worried about getting startzone bombed. Honestly, startzone bombing is pretty common in C3G; there are plenty of units and combos that can hit you within the first two turns of the game.

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  #21  
Old June 13th, 2015, 09:22 AM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

Okay, I think the best thing here will be to see some tests, so I propose we move to playtesting.

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  #22  
Old June 13th, 2015, 10:24 AM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

Yea. I'm a big fan of the map design, I always feel water factions could use more help. Good job ZJ, you're the king of speedy map designs.

Also, let me point out that the Battleship map is ready to move to the next phase as well.
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  #23  
Old June 13th, 2015, 10:53 AM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

Nay. I'd like to see some more discussion first. One thing to do when startzones are close to each other is give the startzones height. Another thing is why are the build requirements so high for such a small map?

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  #24  
Old June 13th, 2015, 11:55 AM
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Re: The Book of City Park - Design Phase

How about this:

It takes 14 spaces to attack on first turn.
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Nay. I'd like to see some more discussion first. One thing to do when startzones are close to each other is give the startzones height. Another thing is why are the build requirements so high for such a small map?
Marvels (CB) and Roads (RttFF) don't offer a lot of tiles, their more for look.

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