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  #1981  
Old April 7th, 2021, 10:48 AM
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Savanna Elves Comparison

Abua Shi has moved toward using Boost tokens instead of simple 'spend magic/use event and get X until end of turn'.

Abua Shi: Old: 5 life, 3 atk, ranged. Chant of Growth to give up his attack and raise an ally's attack by one.
New: 10 life, 5 atk, ranged. Spirit Bond: Also an ally-buffing unit, but it adds one boost token to an ally within 3 spaces, along with any other tokens on Abua.

Thematically, both buff allies, but new Abua Shi needs to be in the middle of the fight.

Champions:
Miti Mumway: Old: 8 cost, 8 life, 3 atk, Melee, Trample
New: 8 cost, 11 life, 1 atk, Melee Trample. Ooh, I'm not a fan of the face on this card. I prefer my Miti just looking abstract and weird. New Miti is reliant on boost tokens to actually do damage. Trample remains unchanged.

Miti Kyru:
Old: 7 cost, 6 life, 3 atk, melee. Mount Up, such that your summoner can 'ride' him.
New Unit. 5 cost, 7 life, 4 atk, melee. Boosts adjacent allies after moving, and can retreat 1-2 spaces by spending a boost or magic.
Not bad at first glance.
Completely different appearance (I far prefer the old giant white cat to Aslan here), and completely different ability. Kyru used to escort the summoner. Now he runs away.

Makeinda Ru: Old: 6 cost, 5 life, 2 atk. ranged Power Shot (if she didn't move, +2 atk)
New: 5 cost, 9 life, 2 atk, ranged. Prepare/Swift Shot. Like the Border Archer, the new Ru is a combintion of old Ru and and Shikwa. Tricky.

Commons:
Rhinoceros: Old: 3 cost, 3 life, 2 atk, melee. Tough (only takes hits from 4+)
New: 2 cost, 5 life, 2 atk, melee. Extra movement for boosts and Trample.
Another completely reworked common. Not a lot of overlap here, except both are rather bulky.

Lioness: Old: 1 cost, 1 life, 2 atk, melee. Hunting Pride means Lionesses don't cont against your move limit, but they move after everyone else.
New: 2 cost, 2 life, 3 atk, melee. After attacking, Lioness gets boosted, and has +1 life per boost token.
These are completely different, with basically no overlap.

Border Archer: 2 cost, 4 life, 2 atk, ranged.
In contrast to Shikwa's original 'Swift Shot', the Border archer's ability is reliant on a boost token (which they can earn by spending a move and not moving).
Kind of a cross between Makeinda Ru's power shot negative and Shikwa's positive.

Spirit Mage: 1 cost, 2 life, 3 atk, ranged. Summoned with a boost token already on it. It can pass boosts along to other units, or generate more. Also solid attack for a 1-cost. No analogy to any old unit. He's just here to get more boost counters on the table and offer some cheap firepower.

Events:
Chant of Power: (cost 1) Seems like a card version of original Abua's ability. It costs one magic and affects a unit within 3 spaces of Abua. Since Abua can also use Spirt Bond to add 1 boost, it is effectively a minimum +1 atk to an ally, but has the potential for +5.

Chant of Growth: Abua doesn't know what's going on. This just AOE boosts a few friendly units. Quite different fro the original summoner ability.

Chant of Weaving (cost 0): No analogy in OG Abua Shi's deck. You can build up boosts on a unit pretty quick with this, and get allies on the opponent's side. Perhaps an alternative to Chant of Haste and Chant of Deception. Haste got units moving quicker, and Deception allowed for hot swapping.

Chant of Entangling: 0 cost. 2 Friendly commons near Abua Shi share abilities. Tricky. Clearly designed for stacking boost token abilities, it is fundamentally the opposite of Abua's original Chant of Negation. That eliminated foe's abilities, while this increases your own.

Overall: Abua's deck has a completely different feel from before. The whole deck is hyper-focused on the boost token mechanic, and only Miti Mumway and Makeinda come through relatively unchanged.

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  #1982  
Old April 7th, 2021, 11:39 AM
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Re: Summoner Wars by Plaid Hat Games

Fallen Kingdom: Ret-Talus
Oof, talk about a bad makeover. Ret-Talus went from being creepy to being Merasmus from Team Fortress 2.
Let's see how his abilities have changed:

Original: 5 life, 2 atk, ranged. Raise the Dead: Spend Ret-Talus' Attack and 2 magic to revive a FK common (from your own discard) adjacent to him.
New: 12 life, 2 atk, ranged. During Summon Phase (no longer spending an attack), deal 2 damage to Ret-Talus to grab an Undead unit from your discards and place it adjacent to him.
So, switching from paying with magic to paying with blood. I also appreciate that the new card specifies 'Undead', as a surprising number of these new commons are not Undead. I assume all 'Undead' will be commons.

Champions:
Gul-Dass: Old: 5 cost, 7 life, 4 atk, melee. When he hits for 3+ damage, deals 1 wound to the FK summoner.
New: 5 cost, 8 life, 2 atk, melee. +1 Atk for each damage
Now that's a crazy re-design. Gul-Dass is now a stand-in for Krug/Hulk. Art is completely different too. No analogous unit in the original FK packs.

Elut Bal: Old: 7 cost, 5 life, 4 atk, melee. Summoned by Blood. You can discard your own units to reduce his cost by 2 for each unit destroyed. (Notably, they end up in your discards, making re-animation easier).
New: 6 cost, 6 life, 6 atk, melee. Summoned by Fire: Forced to Destroy a friendly (triggering abilities as appropriate), and Elut-Bal replaces that unit.
Both big, strong beasts, and both use allies to help get them in play. New Elut replacing a unit is quite powerful, though the sacrifice becoming mandatory is a slight drawback. (Though Be honest, you never summoned old Elut without killing something).

Dragos: Old: 5 Cost, 5 life, 2 atk, melee, Heals 1 when he destroys a unit.
New: 6 cost, 8 life, 4 atk, melee. Before attacking, he can kill an nerby ally to make lightning symbols count as hits.
From generic Vampire to ultra-creepy, I actually approve of this re-design, especially once the Shadow Elves co-opted the traditional Vampire appearance in many ways.
That said, why would you make the ability 'Life Drain' not heal the user? Give it a different name. Old Dragos's Life Drain and Mad Sirian's Blood Drain healed them when attacking, and generally 'Drain' abilities in games do just that, rather than buffing their attack. Great art though.

Commons:
Zombie Warrior (Old): 2 cost, 2 life, 1 atk, melee. Kills a foe, you get magic, AND can revive a Zombie Warrior in its place.
Undead Carrier (New): 1 cost, 3 life, 2 atk, melee. You don't get magic when this guy kills a foe. However, he turns killed units into new Carrier. Note that it doesn't specify 'Undead' Carrier. Perhaps more Carriers will appear in other decks, kind of like how there was some Cultist synergy between Helkar, working with both Fallen Phoenix and Fallen Kingdom Cultists.

Skeletal Archer (Old): 1 cost, 1 life, 1 atk, ranged. When destroyed, 2/3 chance of ending up in owner's discard instead of foe's magic.
Undead Archer (New): 2 cost, 2 life, 3 atk, Ranged. 'Soul Shift', they partially copy Shadow Elf Rangers now. Tricky, but without the ability to immediately attack again, they seem to just become cannon fodder after warping. Note that the Undead title means Ret-Talus can raise them.

Old "Cultist": 2 cost, 1 life, 2 atk, melee. "Death Curse" 2/3 chance of dealing 1 damage to the foe that killed it.
Hellfire Cultist: 0 cost, 2 life, 2 atk, ranged. "Immolate" ALWAYS hurts all adjacent enemies when killed.

Interesting, despite 'Hellfire' being a theme of the old Fallen Phoenix, this guy is more related to the original FK cultists. While the original could harm a foe that killed it from ranged, it was die-roll dependent. The new one explodes when killed by any cause, (even your own events), but only at melee.

Undead Warrior:
Kind of like Reaper (Old): 2 cost, 3 life, 1 atk, melee. Gets +1 atk for each unit it killed (cards killed go underneath it.
New: 2 cost ,3 life, 2 atk, melee. +1 atk for each boost on it, and gets boost whenever any unit is destroyed on your turn. So, the buff is not permanent, degrading by 2 per turn, but thematically similar. The drawback is kind of like the old Ghoul, except it won't kill the Warrior.

Events:
Sacrificial Pyre: 1 cost, Each time a unit is destroyed, boost the card. When card is discarded, target a unit and remove 1 damage from the target for each boost.
Ret-Talus has a way to heal himself now, not just Sirian. Alternatively, a champion can get a new lease on life. Getting maximum potential out of all the 'unit destroyed' effects in this deck would certainly make for a single, crazy, power turn. Setup seems really difficult to pull that off well, however. This card can either come in clutch or be a dud.

Hellforged Weapon: 0 cost Buff a common unit by 2 atk permanently, but it hurts itself for rolling lightning bolts. No analogy in Sirian or Ret-Talus's decks. Except maybe Forbidden Ritual, but that only lasts 1 turn and targets all FK Commons.

Purge:
0 cost, Destroy any number of friendly units and deal 2 damage to adjacent units. Synergizes well with things like the Warrior's blood fury and Cultist's immolate.
This card was actually taken from Immortal Elien instead of Ret-Talus or Sirian. Original purge only targeted 1 *wounded* common unit, and dealt 1 damage to each adjacent unit. New Purge is any number of units, with 2 damage to one target.
Interestingly, that 'fire' symbol means the new Phoenix elves can use this event.

Blood Summon: 0 cost. Summon a unit of cost 2 or less for free adjacent to a target ally. Deal 2 damage to the target. Interestingly, while both Sirian and Ret-Talus had self-damaging-to-summon abilities, (Reanimate, Searching the Stone, and Forced Summon), Blood Summon damages an ordinary unit, and can even be used on a unit that it kills. Also kind of like the Corpse Wyrm's ability.

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  #1983  
Old April 7th, 2021, 12:02 PM
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Re: Summoner Wars by Plaid Hat Games

Polar Dwarves:
My hunch seems to be correct, they are, so far, intimately related to the Tundra Guild, pulling features from both the original Tundra Orcs and Guild Dwarves.
Summoner: Svara: 12 life, 3 atk, ranged. Can move a 'structure' within 3 spaces by one space whenever she moves.
That's fun, moving the typically unmovable is quite nice, and unlike Krusk's Sandstorm, it has no magic cost.
Kind of like a lesser version of Torgan's Glacial Shift.

Champions:
Old: Grok 6 cost, 7 life, 1 atk, ranged. +1 Atk for each Wall she's adjacent to when attacking.
Nadiana: 6 cost, 7 life, 2 atk, ranged. +1 Atk for each friendly structure with 2 spaces.
Grok got a makeover. The shift from 'Wall' (including buffed Ice Golems) to any structure (which could theoretically include things like Turrets) is nice, as is the 'within two spaces' instead of adjacency requirement. That said, I think we need to talk about beauty standards. A strong, independent frost Orc woman like Grok shouldn't need to cave to Dwarven beauty standards and get a name change to be accepted in modern Itharia. She was beautiful before this.


Old:Bragg? (6 cost, 5 life, 2 atk, ranged) "Cold Snap" provides universal buffs for Ice Walls (whether Torgan's Minor Ice Walls, Grognack's main ice walls, or Hogar's Ice Golems), as well as a buff to Grognack's Freeze events. Specifically, Ice Walls only take wounds from rolls of 5+

New: Ollag, 5 cost, 7 life, 3 atk, melee. "Cold Snap" gives friendly structures 1 additional life point.


Well, in spite of the huge difference in "Cold Snap", both do buff Ice Walls, but the new ability works on any structure, but is less impressive.
Bragg didn't see a lot of use in the original Tundra Guild deck, thanks to Hogar's Ice Fortress already covering that reasonably well.
Bragg's Cold Snap was undeniably better for Ice Walls/Ice Golems than Ollag's mere +1 life, especially with the greater hit rate that exists now. Thankfully, Ice Golems have extra life to counter this, but gates are now weaker.


Commons:
Ice Golem (old): 2 cost, 3 life, 1 atk, melee. Only considered a Wall when it has an event (typically one of Zuggdin's runes, Bolvi's upgrades, or Torgan's Ice Armor)
New: 2 cost, 5 life, 2 atk, melee. Counts as a Gate all the time, but only moves one space. (Also note that 'structures', by default, cannot move). Also he's got the 'Logic' icon, which means he'll work in Cloaks and Sand Goblins for some reason, but not Tundra Orcs.
I find this strange, as the 'Orc' races in original Summoner Wars always loved getting extra walls on the table in some way, and both Swamp and tundra Orcs use the water icon in 2.0. Why not make these guys water insted?
At any rate, the fact that you can always summon off of the new Golems is a much-needed change).


Bear Cavalry: 3 cost, 5 life, 3 atk, melee. Trample. That's a bulky common.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Trample only being on Champions (specifically Miti Mumway and Torrodin.
I guess they're kind of like living versions of Torgan's Glacial Shift, except Trample always hurts, while that event required a roll.
Overall, no analogy in any deck.


Ice Smith: 0 cost, 2 life, 2 atk, melee. "Frost Axe". After it moves for the first time, it gets a boost. The second time, you spend the boost and "place it under a friendly common within 3 spaces". The word 'It' is key here. Does this mean the boost token ends up under the ally, or does the entire Ice Smith card end up under the ally (making their defeat worth an additional magic point like v 1.0?)
At any rate, Frost Axe is fundamentally similar to Hogar's "Rune of Power" even, which turned 5+ die rolls into 2 hits. The difference is that Frost Axe only helps melee units. The original card changed it from 2/3 chance of 1 hit and 1/3 chance of miss to 1/3 of 2 hits, 1/3 1 hit, 1/3 miss. Average buff from 2/3 hit per die to 1 hit per die.

this new one changes it from 5/6 of one hit, to 2/3 chance of 1 hit, 1/6 chance of 2 hits, 1/6 chance of 3 hits. Average of 1.5 hits per die buffed from 5/6 hits per die. That's phenomenal, especially considering how you cannot miss with this active. Heck, even against a Deceiver, the total damage can only be reduced by '1' and those lighting bolts deal 2.
So, Ice Smith is basically an old event converted into a unit, and it is very potent.


Events:
Parapet: 0 cost, 5 life. Friendly units can attack through this structure, foes cannot. You also cannot summon off of these like a Gate. Interesting to have a card that is so similar to an Ice Wall, but you can't summon from it. Svara can also keep these mobile, so that's nice too.
Closest analogy is the old 3-life Ice Wall, but that's not a very good analogy.

Glacial Shift: 0 cost. A weaker card? Only affects structures within 3 spaces of summoner, and moved structures don't damage your foes. Also, water-type, so Tundra Orcs and Swamp Orcs will be able to use this to move their ice/vine walls. Scary.

Ice Ram: 0 Cost: Oh, here's the damage part, split into two cards now. After moving a structure, a unit next to it gets damaged and can then be forced. Not bad for a power turn.


Ice Repair: 0 Cost:
Remove 2 damage from each structure. Architects in event form, and universal. Opposite of the old Destabilize, and it heals ice golems. Not bad. I can't find any analogous old event.

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Last edited by Nukatha; April 12th, 2021 at 01:21 PM.
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  #1984  
Old April 7th, 2021, 12:08 PM
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Re: Summoner Wars by Plaid Hat Games

Also, I'm seeing a few changes similar to those in @killercactus 's Errata thread on the old summoner wars forums, but I don't have a good archive of those.
Do any of you (@Jexik) have that old project archived? I asked on BGG about a year ago, but no one replied.

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  #1985  
Old April 7th, 2021, 04:27 PM
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Re: Summoner Wars by Plaid Hat Games

Very excited for second edition. Preordered day one haha.

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