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Custom Terrain & Obstacles For Custom terrain, buildings, and other misc. obstacles


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  #1813  
Old March 2nd, 2021, 08:15 AM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

Always nice to see you, Grish! My impression has always been that folks on this site were big fans of what you do, so surprised to see you saying your stuff hasn't been well-received. I know I've always been impressed by your buildings and so forth!

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #1814  
Old March 2nd, 2021, 01:15 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Always nice to see you, Grish! My impression has always been that folks on this site were big fans of what you do, so surprised to see you saying your stuff hasn't been well-received. I know I've always been impressed by your buildings and so forth!
I second this. He is the reason I started doing all my custom terrain work. Love all his terrain and tutorials.
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  #1815  
Old March 2nd, 2021, 01:29 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

Grish is the absolute best. I'm a big fan!

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Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
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  #1816  
Old March 2nd, 2021, 04:17 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

I know my voice may not carry much weight in this discussion, but I have many happy memories of scrolling through here over and over for ideas. I would never object to a Grish project!

Though numerous pronunciation attempts have been made, I have recently spurned my moniker. Feel free to refer to me as BowTieJones instead.
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  #1817  
Old March 2nd, 2021, 04:26 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

Yeah, I made a set of your buildings (2 single story, 1 two story, & 1 three story) and used them so much they are in poor shape now. Really enjoyed following your other projects too like the underwater one.
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  #1818  
Old March 3rd, 2021, 02:37 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Always nice to see you, Grish! My impression has always been that folks on this site were big fans of what you do, so surprised to see you saying your stuff hasn't been well-received. I know I've always been impressed by your buildings and so forth!
This comment surprised me too. I've made many awesome terrain pieces that are based on things in this thread, inspired by things I learned in this thread, or just direct ripoffs of this thread. Maybe @Grishnakh is referring more to the ruleset and custom cards he developed?
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  #1819  
Old April 30th, 2021, 04:45 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

Glad everyone enjoys my custom terrain. Trust me, we still use the hell out of it too! Regardless, not referring to my terrain. Nor do I really want to discuss this. Old news. That water followed under the bridge a long time ago.

My Custom Terrain Thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...read.php?t=448
My tribute site to TFT/Melee & Wizards: http://www.meleewizards.com/
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  #1820  
Old April 30th, 2021, 04:47 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
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Based on some recent, renewed interest in our buildings and our terrain rules perhaps it's finally time to revisit our custom creations and rules.

Some history: Our Interactive Terrain Features rules (as well as our building rules) were created back in 2011. To create them took countless hours of experimentation and countless hours of play testing by our gaming group here on Long Island. It went through a tremendous amount of revisions and rewrites to get it to the state it currently is in. The version posted here is actually the 9th version created!

Overall it's held up extremely well over the years. I've played so many games using these rules I've simply lost count. We tend to get positive feedback whenever we introduce it to new players at conventions, and at our local game store. With that said however, it can't please everyone. What one gamer likes, another dislikes.

So, after all these years, here's both our thoughts going forward. And while the positive comments we've received tend to outweigh the negative ones, we still listen to what players tell us about their experience with the rules. We're certainly not above tweaking anything to make it better.

• As I've mentioned in other threads the rules themselves are fairly simple. However, they really need to be edited down. When we originally wrote them we really wanted them to appeal to a wide range of players, so we made sure to cover every situation that our rules might find themselves being used in. The biggest concern was how to use muliti-space objects, especially in uneven terrain. The rules that we came up with work, they just give you a headache reading them. In practice we tend to play these rules on a flat, city street map anyway, so none of this ever really mattered. Still, the rules work well when, for example, you're smashing a truck on top of a building where the truck overhangs the edge.

We are also planning to eventually separate the rules from the back pages that give tips on what and where to purchase the terrain we've searched out and used. Plus some of our rules are a bit scattered through the other booklets on buildings. Things like half hexes and elevators. We'd like to consolidate all of that into one rule booklet and one terrain booklet.

• Secondly is object presentation. We originally went with cards for each type of object. That proved to be a problem and tended to slow the game down. The set up is so big table space is at a premium. Players barely have room for their army cards, let alone multiple ITF cards. With the cards, for example, players kept asking where the Fire Hydrant card was, and could they see it. That started a search for the card, which slowed the game down. So we migrated over to a single chart that every player could have access to. This really sped the game up. However, I'm still searching for a solution here. I think the chart turned some people off. Perhaps there's another way to represent these objects. Perhaps a page or two of objects, presented in a smaller version of the Heroscape cards? Similar to the pages of square cards others on this site have done.

• Next is the way the rules affect the style of play. We've found that most Heroscape players that are introduced to these rules for the first time go crazy picking up and throwing objects until there's nothing left on the battlefield to use. Only then do they close with their opponent to attack. It tends to break theme, and we hear a lot of negative comments because of this. Battlefields in Heroscape are pretty static. Once the battlefield comes alive with objects that can be tactically used it changes the game radically. Some like this, some don't. What a more experienced player starts to realize is not only can you use the terrain to attack with, but you can also deny your opponent from using it. Destroying a tanker truck at range not only does just that, it can also cause surrounding figures to take damage as well.

That brings me to mention a bit about strategy. If you throw an object at a safe distance you avoid close combat. However, if your opponent catches that same thrown item you have just given him a way to attack you back. You really have to choose who you throw objects at! If you smash with an object it causes a lot more damage, but it puts you in closer combat with your enemy. That was always the overall strategy built into the rules. On a deeper level holding an object lowers your ability to defend so a smart player can use that to their advantage. Plus, as I mentioned, destroying an object at range can hurt enemy figures as well.

Then you have players that ignore all of this terrain stuff and just charge into battle normally. This can also be used to deny a figure from using the terrain object, making them take a leaving engagement to get to the object for example. Things can get kinda wild strategically, especially in the middle of a street crowded with figures and objects. (Hulk smashes Thanos with a car, which also clips a tanker truck, which fails it's defense roll and is destroyed, blowing up in the process and hurting all nearby figures, including the Hulk. It's happen many times in our games.)

• Last, and this is the big one, is the amount of damage a thrown object and an object used in a smash attack does. Adjusting Range factors into this as well.

So here's the thing, you either factor the damage the object does on the attack of the figure using the object, or you make the attack number static for all objects, regardless of who uses it. The first example makes the Hulk a lot more dangerous, the second one makes weaker figures more dangerous. Both have their issues.

Some players have told us that our rules were way too powerful. Objects cause way too much damage. (Sometimes this is a factor of whose cards you are using. For example our custom supers tend to be a bit more powerful that those who have tried to more closely match the point spread of classic Scape, plus our custom figures can typically absorb a bit more damage) Regardless, we've recently experimented with toning them down and using static attack numbers. Here's the list:

Small - Range: 10, Attack: 1
Medium - Range: 8, Attack: 3
Large - Range: 6, Attack: 5
Huge - Range: 4, Attack: 7

What we found when we weakened the attacks was that players tended not to even use the objects. Plus it just seemed weird thematically when an angered Hulk smashes with a car and does the same amount of damage that Spiderman would do with the same car.

So we're back to the way things were originally created, attacks are based on the attack of the figure using it, modified by the size of the object being used. (We did adjust numbers a bit when we went from our cards to our chart. Not sure anyone noticed that or not but we attempted to standardize things a bit. Mainly to help make numbers easier to remember.)

So the final question to those of you that have played, or are trying these rules out for the first time is simple. How would you adjust the damage, as well as the range on these objects? (And I'm using the numbers on the chart, not the older cards.) Or, is it perfect the way it is? I'm sure we'll get a wide range of responses here, but it does make for an interesting game theory question. And who knows, one of you may see a better, different way to represent the power of these objects being utilized.

Hulk SMASH!
I just remembered this discussion recently and went back to see where it ended. After re reading through the two threads where we discussed you possibly were looking to Revamp your ITF rules I realized why I didn't know what happened. I had a sever car accident that pretty much had me out of touch here from the back end of 2016 until summer of 2017...which is why I never responded.

So not sure how active you are these days but I am curious if you did make any changes here. I go back and forth on the standard base attack and modifier to figures attack. One thing I've thought of but haven't actually tested yet was a combo but it's kind of a break from standard Heroscape rules. For example...

The attack roll would be a modifier of the figures attack, but it wouldn't be standard Attacker's skulls - Defender's shields. But more a base number of unblockable wounds per item size. Basically Attacker's Skulls > Defender's Shields, Medium sized objects (mailboxes, trash cans, etc) do 1 damage.

So the number of attack dice to hit is higher for Hulk than Spidey so he's more likely to hit but the damage is the same. Hulk will throw that mailbox harder/faster than Spidey so it's harder to avoid/absorb but in the end it's still a mailbox and it can only do so much damage before it disintegrates.

Anyways, just interested in if you put anymore thought in here.
Hey Japes! Since you brought this up and were interested I thought I'd pop in and give you a quick rundown of how we've simplified our terrain rules over the past several years. I'll include a summary in my next post! Hope you find them of some use!

My Custom Terrain Thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...read.php?t=448
My tribute site to TFT/Melee & Wizards: http://www.meleewizards.com/
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  #1821  
Old April 30th, 2021, 04:47 PM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

Our Current, Revised, Much Abbreviated SuperHero Terrain Rules!
_______________________________________________
Our Terrain Terminology and Notes:
To start with here’s our terminology as it pertains to our terrain features on the battlefield.
• We identify 3 types of terrain on the battlefield:

1. Terrain Tiles
These are the actual tiles that you build the battlefield out of (grass, rock, sand, water, ice, snow, road, lava, lava field, etc.). At the moment we do not have any specific rules regarding these types of tiles other than the normal Heroscape rules associated with those tiles.

2. Objects
These are basically Non-Destructible Objects. They are placed onto the battlefield, but you cannot interact with them, nor destroy them.Some examples would be buildings, trees, large rocks, castle walls, bridges, etc.

3. Interactive Terrain Features (ITFs)
ITFs are terrain that is placed on the battlefield that you can use, or interact with. You can pick up these items and carry them, or use them as weapons. These items are such things as cars, street signs, computer consoles, train cars, equipment "glyphs", etc. All Interactive Terrain Features fit neatly into 1 of 5 categories, or Classes. This allows you to purchase or make ANY type of terrain for your games. All you need to do is to determine what class the item fits into (both size and weight wise), how many spaces it occupies, and determine if there are any special rules based on that object (like explodes when destroyed, etc.).

- Destructible Objects (DOs)
There are only two Destructible Objects (or DOs) associated with the official game, the castle door and the wall section of the ruined warehouse. However, the framework surrounding both of these “destructible parts” (the door and the wall section) are just static “Objects”. We currently do not have any specific rules regarding this type of terrain other than the normal Heroscape rules for them. Our group always felt that DOs were way too limiting in what you can actually "do" with them, which is to just destroy them and remove them from play. Unless they are part of a very specific scenario objective (like destroy mole man's underground earthquake beam before it destroys New York) we do not use Destructible Objects. They really aren’t any fun.

_______________________________________________
Our Rules for Interactive Terrain Features (ITFs):

Classification (Or Simply Class):
Each Interactive Terrain Feature (ITF) on the battlefield has a Class. Classes are:
• 0 - Small (equipment glyphs - terrain features that can fit in one hand)
• 1 - Medium (terrain feature occupies one space - lamp posts, mailboxes, etc.)
• 2 - Large (terrain feature occupies 2 to 3 spaces - cars, statues, etc.)
• 3 - Huge (terrain feature occupies 5 spaces - tractor trailers)
• 4 - Immense (terrain feature occupies 7 spaces - trains, radar dishes, laser cannons, etc.)
_______________________________________________
Restrictions on use:
• Anyone can pick up and use a Class 0 ITF (Equipment Glyph).

Only figures with Super Strength can pick up and use Class 1 and higher ITFs.
Double the Class = the amount of Life points you need to pick up and use a particular ITF.
• Class 1 = 2 Life Points to be able to pick up and use
• Class 2 = 4 Life Points to be able to pick up and use
• Class 3 = 6 Life Points to be able to pick up and use
• Class 4 = 8 Life Points to be able to pick up and use
(Note: Tiny figures with Super Strength are limited to picking up Class 1 ITFs.)
_______________________________________________
ITF Defense:
ITFs do not roll defense dice. They receive automatic shields equal to double their Class. If damage is ever given that is higher than this number the ITF is automatically destroyed. (For ease of play all Interactive Terrain only have one Life Point - who wants to keep track of Life Points for every piece of terrain on a battlefield?)
• Class 0 = Equipment Glyphs cannot be destroyed.
• Class 1 = 2 automatic shields when defending
• Class 2 = 4 automatic shields when defending
• Class 3 = 6 automatic shields when defending
• Class 4 = 8 automatic shields when defending
(If using our optional Wreakage rules place wreckage in the spaces the object occupied.)
_______________________________________________
Picking up an ITF - Cost in Movement:
The class of the object is the cost in Move points to pick up that object. After picking up an ITF you can continue moving, using your remaining Move points.

(If you do not have enough Move points left you can still pick up the ITF, but you must roll 1 die unblockable strain for each extra Move point you do not have.)

Carrying an ITF - Movement Penalty:
If you start your turn carrying an ITF you must subtract the objects Class from your Move. If this takes you below a 1 then you cannot move! (You cannot attack using your hands while carrying an ITF. You could still do mental, or other non-physical attacks though.)

Attacked while carrying an ITF - Defense Penalty:
If a figure is attacked while carrying an object they must subtract the objects Class from their defense, down to a minimum of 1.
_______________________________________________
Smash Attack Dice: Normal Attack + Class:
Attacking figures Normal attack number + the Class of the object. (Target opponents or ITFs on the same level of the attacker, or attackers Height higher or lower.)
(Design notes: Attack = Fist, it’s like using a giant club!)

Throw Attack Dice: Normal Attack + Class -1
Attacking figures Normal Attack number. Subtract 1 from the Class of the object and add that many attack dice.
• Class 1 = 0 added attack dice
• Class 2 = 1 added attack dice
• Class 3 = 2 added attack dice
• Class 4 = 3 added attack dice
(Design notes: Attack = Your skill using an object in an attack, Class = the weight and mass of the object being thrown, subtracting 1 represents the unwieldy nature of using a non-aerodynamic object as a missile.)

Throw Range: Attackers Original Life Points
Attacking figures original Life in spaces. Range and height advantage is calculated from the figure throwing the object.
(Design notes: Life = the Strength of figure throwing the object)

Vertical Range:
(This uses my system of buildings where each story of a building is 6 levels high)
• Class 1 - 6 Stories (36 levels vertical)
• Class 2 - 4 Stories (24 levels vertical)
• Class 3 - 2 Stories (12 levels vertical)
• Class 4 - 1 Story (6 levels vertical)
_______________________________________________
Rules for specific ITFs:
Things like explosions, fire, etc. should be determined before your game, on a case by case basis. The height to climb up on and any special rules for each current ITF that we use is listed on our ITF chart. (I do not have posted a modified sheet at this time, however the old sheet gives good information on how we handle certain objects in play.)
_______________________________________________
ITF destruction:
• A Class 0 ITF (or Glyph) can be thrown, but it can cause no damage. If thrown to an empty space place the equipment glyph in that space. If thrown to a Hero (whose hands are free) that Hero can elect to catch the item, or place it underneath them, on the ground. (As an optional rule you can require a one die roll to catch a thrown Class 0 ITF or glyph, 50/50 chance, you catch it if you roll a skull, otherwise it falls underneath your feet.)

• Once thrown a Class 1 (single space ITF) is destroyed, remove it from play.

• When throwing a Class 2 or higher, multi-spaced ITF, target one figure or empty space within your range and then place the rest of the object centered in any adjacent space (or spaces). All figures in these spaces are affected. Once thrown a multi-spaced ITF is destroyed.

• The same holds true when using a Class 2 or higher, multi-spaced ITF in a Smash attack, except you attack a number of spaces in a straight line from the attacker equal to the length of the object being used. All figures in these spaces are affected. Once used in a Smash attack, a multi-spaced ITF is destroyed.

Optional: Wreckage: Using this optional rule, Class 2 or higher, multi-spaced ITFs used in an attack will now create single space, Class 1 Wreckage in the spaces where the object was used. Any affected figures in those spaces must first roll defense, and then vacate to any open adjacent space when the wreckage is placed. (This wreckage can now be picked up and used as well. We highly recommend using this rule as it adds a lot of fun to the game. Smashing and Throwing objects gives less powerful characters smaller objects that can now be throw back!) (I have a tutorial on how to create these piles of wreckage here on this site somewhere.)

Optional: Catching a thrown ITF: If a figure that has the requirements to pickup a thrown ITF is attacked with any size, thrown ITF, and that defending figure takes no damage from the attack, they can elect to catch the object (before any other affected figures around them would have to roll defense dice). In this case any other targeted figures would not need to roll defense as the object would not hit them. They’d be saved!
_______________________________________________
Optional: Throwing Common Squad Figures: You must have Super Strength to throw a Common Squad figure. When throwing a Common Squad Figure place the thrown figure in any unoccupied space within 3 spaces of its original location. Afterwards, roll 1 die unblockable damage against the thrown figure. Of course if you throw the figure off of a building use falling rules instead! (Maybe only villains should be allowed to do any of this? We’ll leave that up to you! If you really want to be violent then consider a Common Squad figure to be a Class 1 ITF. Now you can throw him or her 6 stories)

(How about throwing Unique Heroes? We don’t allow it currently since it becomes really deadly, especially using really tall buildings. Too much instant death equals no fun…)
_______________________________________________

My Custom Terrain Thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...read.php?t=448
My tribute site to TFT/Melee & Wizards: http://www.meleewizards.com/
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  #1822  
Old April 30th, 2021, 04:51 PM
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Grishnakh Grishnakh is offline
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

OK, I know this looks like a lot. But it's incredibly easy to just memorize a few things, or make a really simple cheat sheet, and off you go. Really easy to integrate your own customize terrain using this too. No need for "official" stuff. If I ever do get around to making anything else I'll keep you posted. And let me know if you try any of this! Bye for now!

My Custom Terrain Thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...read.php?t=448
My tribute site to TFT/Melee & Wizards: http://www.meleewizards.com/
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  #1823  
Old May 1st, 2021, 08:01 AM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

That is awesome. Thanks for sharing
Had a blast with these rules at Gen Con.
Hope to bump into you again someday.
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  #1824  
Old May 2nd, 2021, 12:35 AM
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Re: Grishnakh's Custom Terrain

Awesome. Thanks for posting. With everything directly related to the Class it really is a lot less to take in that it seems at first glance. I need more time to fully digest this.
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