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  #37  
Old November 5th, 2014, 04:36 PM
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Re: Glyph Grabbing! (Updated 4/10)

So, after a recent tourney, I started thinking about glyphs. I'm all for the inclusion of glyphs but in a tourney setting you need to be very careful about which ones to include. Basically, I'm against any glyph that would affect one army but not the other. The Glyph of Ivor is the most obvious offender. Why use a glyph that only favors a ranged army? Especially if it's face don, it's a real bummer when I sacrifice an order marker or two only to take a glyph that ends up being useless to me. Other glyphs I don't like in a tournament setting include:

Glyph of Rannveig (Wind) (only affects an army with flyers)
Glyph of Thorian (Thorian Speed) (only affects a ranged army)
Glyph of Kelda (Healer) (only benefits an army with Heroes)
Glyph of Sturla (Revive) (same as Kelda, above)
Glyph of Nilrend (Negation) (Only affects Unique-heavy armies)

Now some may say, so what? If you have a melee army, and there's a Glyph of Ivor on the board, then just take it to keep it away from your ranged opponent. I can see that, but still. I would prefer something like an Attack +1 Glyph, where whichever opponent takes it benefits from it. Glyphs that aren't quite as offensive as the above but are still sketchy include:

Glyph of Ulaniva (Unique Attack +1) (only affects unique-heavy army, obviously)
Glyph of Crevcor (Common Attack +1) (only affects common-heavy army, obviously)
Glyph of Mitonsoul (Massive Curse)

The first two are self explanatory. I prefer the blanket Attack +1 glyph. Mitonsoul technically affects both players equally but the fact that one player could lose their 100-point hero while the other player loses a squad fig (as happened in my last tourney) just seems way too swingy. Last but not least, there's a third category of glyph that is on the borderline of acceptable or not:

Glyph of Erland (Summoning)
You could argue that anyone can use this glyph but it especially screws over armies built around a cheerleader like Raelin). Plus it's one use-only meaning your opponent can't take it from you and get the benefit.
Glyph of Lodin (Lucky Twenty-Sider)
This is okay, because even if you don't have a unit that relies on the 20-sider, you could still use it for initiative rolling, but an army built around the 20-sider is obviously gonna benefit more from it so I include it on the "probably not" list.
Glyph of Nilrend (Negation)
Can really screw over certain units/armies worse than others, also is "one use" (see Erland, above)
Glyph of Oreld (Intercept Order)
A one-use glyph (thereby only benefiting one player) that can be really swingy.

Now, some would argue that glyphs correct certain "inequalities" in the game. Such as, range trumps melee, so Melee needs an equalizer. I think that's a thread that we don't really want to pull on. For all intents and purposes, we need to trust that 100 points of melee is equal to 100 points of range even though that's probably not true in all cases. Otherwise the whole game starts to unravel (and yes, I'm aware that Delta/Delta+, and all that jazz is an attempted fix but it's not one that I care to explore).

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  #38  
Old November 5th, 2014, 06:09 PM
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Re: Glyph Grabbing! (Updated 4/10)

Nice read! I agree with most of it but the only thing I would say is that I don't like Attack +1. In today's game of range and commons, the last thing you want to do is let the Stingers, 4th Mass, and 10th Regiment (among others) to have an extra attack (and they don't even have to use Drain or Wait Then Fire!). And while you're doing that you're also giving Krug, Q9, etc. and extra attack. At least with Unique Attack, it doesn't give the Stingers and Revolutionaries extra attack, and it only gives the Uniques extra dice.

My normal glyph pool is:
- Defense +1
- Unique Attack +1
- Move +2 (except on road maps)
- Initiative +8
- Wound

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  #39  
Old November 5th, 2014, 06:13 PM
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I love glyphs!!

Quote:
Now, some would argue that glyphs correct certain "inequalities" in the game. Such as, range trumps melee, so Melee needs an equalizer. I think that's a thread that we don't really want to pull on. For all intents and purposes, we need to trust that 100 points of melee is equal to 100 points of range even though that's probably not true in all cases. Otherwise the whole game starts to unravel.
I think we need to stop looking at glyphs as just equalizers for armies and instead use them to make maps and games more interesting. The map I brought to Ohio NHSD this year included a ton of glyphs (9 of them, 6 of which being his and her styled). A huge canyon 11 or 12 levels high with a bridge connecting the two ends. Very much an awesome map, but severely imbalanced in favor of flyers (cough cough Braxas/Nilfy). Even though flying wasn't a huge issue (though 1 fellow played Minions on it) having his and hers Wind Glyphs definately didn't hurt. I got no negative reviews for the map, other than being hard for Cavalry Units to get to the top of the canyons (though Move+2 helps with that if you can hold it). Everyone who played on it thought it made their matches that much more interesting.

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  #40  
Old November 5th, 2014, 11:31 PM
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Re: Glyph Grabbing! (Updated 4/10)

^Nicely said, flameslayer. I'm all for balancing a map with glyphs. Hadn't really thought of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
I agree with most of it but the only thing I would say is that I don't like Attack +1. In today's game of range and commons, the last thing you want to do is let the Stingers, 4th Mass, and 10th Regiment (among others) to have an extra attack (and they don't even have to use Drain or Wait Then Fire!). And while you're doing that you're also giving Krug, Q9, etc. and extra attack. At least with Unique Attack, it doesn't give the Stingers and Revolutionaries extra attack, and it only gives the Uniques extra dice.
Yeah, I can see that. Maybe the Attack +1 belongs in my third category of glyphs. But the ranged army still needs to get a figure on the glyph, and assuming it's an equal distance from each army, that means the melee army has en equal chance to get there first and probably can place a fig with higher defense on the glyph...[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
My normal glyph pool is:
- Defense +1
- Unique Attack +1
- Move +2 (except on road maps)
- Initiative +8
- Wound
That's decent. I think I prefer Defense +2 to Defense +1, though. +1 defense doesn't really do much, 'course that might be desireable, depending on the situation...

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  #41  
Old November 6th, 2014, 12:09 AM
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Re: Glyph Grabbing! (Updated 4/10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The B.I.V. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
My normal glyph pool is:
- Defense +1
- Unique Attack +1
- Move +2 (except on road maps)
- Initiative +8
- Wound
That's decent. I think I prefer Defense +2 to Defense +1, though. +1 defense doesn't really do much, 'course that might be desireable, depending on the situation...
I would suggest looking at the OHS scene for ideas for glyphs for tournament use.

Entire Defense and Attack boosts can cause some armies to get especially strong and annoying, such as rats, Q9, and ranged figures. Unique Attack and/or Holdir are better overall, even if it limits it uniques/1 attack per turn. Keldas on maps do encourage more hero use to an extend, but also encourages hard-to-kill and bonding heroes. (Which is where the T-glyph Healer comes in, since it only heals 3 wounds and they have to reveal an OM on their card to use it.)
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  #42  
Old November 12th, 2014, 07:26 PM
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Re: It only takes 5 rotv, a castle, 2 bftU and custom gems..

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
I love glyphs!!

Quote:
Now, some would argue that glyphs correct certain "inequalities" in the game. Such as, range trumps melee, so Melee needs an equalizer. I think that's a thread that we don't really want to pull on. For all intents and purposes, we need to trust that 100 points of melee is equal to 100 points of range even though that's probably not true in all cases. Otherwise the whole game starts to unravel.
I think we need to stop looking at glyphs as just equalizers for armies and instead use them to make maps and games more interesting. The map I brought to Ohio NHSD this year included a ton of glyphs (9 of them, 6 of which being his and her styled). A huge canyon 11 or 12 levels high with a bridge connecting the two ends. Very much an awesome map, but severely imbalanced in favor of flyers (cough cough Braxas/Nilfy). Even though flying wasn't a huge issue (though 1 fellow played Minions on it) having his and hers Wind Glyphs definately didn't hurt. I got no negative reviews for the map, other than being hard for Cavalry Units to get to the top of the canyons (though Move+2 helps with that if you can hold it). Everyone who played on it thought it made their matches that much more interesting.
I hate perma-glyphs. And they are equalizers. I do enjoy temporary one use glyphs.

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  #43  
Old November 12th, 2014, 07:41 PM
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Re: Glyph Grabbing! (Updated 4/10)

I like the Temporary Glyphs too, @Owlman , but I find that unless you put down a bunch of the same glyph, that people don't want them. I'm speaking from homebrew scenario experience in this instance (NHSD was a different beast altogether). But even when I just did SoloScapes, I would rather have Permanent Glyphs unless I wanted to use a glyph or two intentionally.

In an unrelated but related matter, have you tried to play scenario battles? What have been your experiences with them in regards to the value of glyphs? Or have you played 1v1 games quite a bit?

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  #44  
Old November 12th, 2014, 09:16 PM
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Re: Glyph Grabbing! (Updated 4/10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
I like the Temporary Glyphs too, @Owlman , but I find that unless you put down a bunch of the same glyph, that people don't want them. I'm speaking from homebrew scenario experience in this instance (NHSD was a different beast altogether). But even when I just did SoloScapes, I would rather have Permanent Glyphs unless I wanted to use a glyph or two intentionally.

In an unrelated but related matter, have you tried to play scenario battles? What have been your experiences with them in regards to the value of glyphs? Or have you played 1v1 games quite a bit?

I don't get to play that often, but yeah I've done scenario battles, but usually 1 v 1 battles. I have never used the Perma Glyphs like Attack, Defense, etc...Not in any format to my recollection. Just not a fun mechanic IMO.

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  #45  
Old November 13th, 2014, 02:09 AM
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Glyphs are fine as long as they are set up in a place that doesn't make them near impossible to reclaim. Also Ivor is a broken glyph. Jalgard is pretty close behind it (play anyone with Deathreavers and Jalgard and tell me infinite Raelin isn't near broken). Astrid is probably the next most powerful after that bunch although in some build Nilrend/Erland can be amazing. Glyphs can be used to direct the flow of battle to spots that otherwise wouldn't normally be fought over and this can create interesting dynamics. It can be a tricky line to walk.

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  #46  
Old November 17th, 2014, 04:23 PM
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Re: Glyph Grabbing! (Updated 4/10)

I have to agree with OHS approach for glyphs in competitive Heroscape. Glyphs are great to give you something to push for and battle over, but less so when the effect is so high impact that it becomes the focus of the map. I typically prefer smaller ones like Lodin and Dagmar or ones that eke out advantage like Wannok. Ulanivia and Holdir also have trouble getting out of hand since Unique Heroes and Squads are a little self-limiting in what you get out of them and are more likely to rely on special attacks in the first place.

For "Kitchen Table" Heroscape, however, I don't mind having more swingy multiplayer battles over high impact glyphs. One of my favorite Heroscape moments came from a glyph of Mitonsoul that went horribly wrong.
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