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  #229  
Old September 27th, 2020, 08:46 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

Putting this up while it's still fresh.

Me: Mimring, Tarn, Pyria, Ukushisa
vs MegaSilver: Q10, Isamu, Velkohr, Velnesh

Went for a 400-ish point "Master Set" style game with several units to test and no Common Squads.

Spoiler Alert!


Some thoughts after the game (mainly MegaSilver's): Shift/Blink had lots of good, fun options around/through the wall, made NecroBlade think of where to position figures that weren't actively involved in attacking. Velkhor's concept of reducing defense is good, but the execution is disappointing. The 1 shield minimum made the Aura ineffective, especially felt bad rolling 1-skull attacks knowing that it couldn't help. Velnesh and Ukushisa could probably swap points, the 5A/6D of the UP did a lot of work.

My thoughts for Ukushisa specifically: they were fun. I liked the "pack" feeling of keeping them together. Their stats while they have at least a couple alive are very impressive, and made me think of the Unique Samurai Squads. At 120, the Tagawa have less Move, Attack (until Experienced), and Defense. At 100, the Kozuke have less Move (unless engaging), the same Attack, and half the Defense. Given the ability to hammer something with three attacks of 5, 110 points, between the two Samurai Squads, feels like a better starting point to me.


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  #230  
Old October 4th, 2020, 03:01 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

I wouldn't have guessed an increase in price.
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  #231  
Old October 4th, 2020, 04:00 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

A price increase definitely sounds reasonable when comparing them against the Tagawa or the Kozuke. They are harder to position thanks to being double-spaced and wanting to maintain adjacency, but those are some pretty great stats at a great speed.

They feel like they would be very good at clean-up. For roughly 100 points, it's feasible to hold them back until the opponents are thinned out, which makes hunting stragglers significantly easier for them.
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  #232  
Old October 6th, 2020, 09:13 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
They feel like they would be very good at clean-up. For roughly 100 points, it's feasible to hold them back until the opponents are thinned out, which makes hunting stragglers significantly easier for them.
Sounds thematic. Let's make sure they get tested that way.


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  #233  
Old October 10th, 2020, 10:53 AM
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Alrighty, we’ve got enough. Do we need an editing check on the new power? It’s not complex, but it is substantially different from the old one.
Yes, this needs full Editing review.

Would you mind knocking out the Editing Review when you get a chance so that we can say that the Ukushisa Pride are in full Playtesting mode?

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  #234  
Old October 10th, 2020, 02:19 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

Relevant comment based on @flameslayer93 's analysis posts: we could possibly diversify base stats here by giving them 5D and then only having Combined Heat give an attack bonus. This lowers their starting Defense slightly (though only if you manage to keep them in triangle formation) but removes the domino effect of lower Defense every time one gets killed. Just a thought, as I'm also OK with them as-is (the bonus to both feels just as thematic). And, on a related note, I think it's worth thinking about them as reverse B-11s. They don't have Range (or a 4th member), but they're faster and hit harder up front (with better stats than even the last B-11 gets).


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  #235  
Old October 12th, 2020, 08:07 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

I'd be open to that change - I'd actually prefer it for what it's worth.
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  #236  
Old October 13th, 2020, 11:08 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

I like that idea as well. It maintains the pack-attacking concept while simplifying the design a bit and making them less swingy.
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  #237  
Old October 13th, 2020, 11:47 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

I'd be Ok with the change, but think it both makes them a whole lot less valuable and less incentive to keep them in packs. That one extra defense (5 to 6 with three units) is a lot as keeps them fully effective longer. Plus with the change I would be more likely to spread them out going for lower defense units if defense does not matter keeping in a pack.

However I think maybe 6 defense is too powerful in the hands of a good player, and it is hard for newbies to play in packs, so the change would maybe be more in line with the set as a whole to keep units simple. Sorry I am thinking as I type but now that I think about it I actually like the change.
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  #238  
Old October 13th, 2020, 05:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

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Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
I'd be Ok with the change, but think it both makes them a whole lot less valuable and less incentive to keep them in packs. That one extra defense (5 to 6 with three units) is a lot as keeps them fully effective longer. Plus with the change I would be more likely to spread them out going for lower defense units if defense does not matter keeping in a pack.
This is definitely something to test and keep an eye on. IMO, the pack theme should shine, given the name Pride and the power Combined Heat. One way to swing that back in the other direction would be to give them 2A, but let Combined Heat give +2 for each adjacent. Then they're 2A solo (weaker), 4A paired (same), 6A fully packed up (stronger). This would also give us another non-3A unit.


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  #239  
Old October 14th, 2020, 09:33 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

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Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
... One way to swing that back in the other direction would be to give them 2A, but let Combined Heat give +2 for each adjacent. Then they're 2A solo (weaker), 4A paired (same), 6A fully packed up (stronger). This would also give us another non-3A unit.
Possibly. And keeping at 5 Defense makes them not too OP compared to 6 Defense max but 6 attack is really nice. However, I could see them with that being used as an assassin unit on a hero though, getting 3 attacks of 6 (18 attack dice) is one of the most powerful attack turn in all of Heroscape (barring a fully maxed Krug or Hulk, or some weird Glad/Blast or other extreme combinations). We could up the point value on the pride then.

Now that I think about it I like the simple +1 attack with 5 defense. We could also add +1 move, but power would be more complicated adding another sentence on who they start next to.
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  #240  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 03:23 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Editing

It would be nice to nail this down before going through the Editing Checklist again.

I prefer that Combined Heat gives them only an attack bonus (and Defense 5), but that's only a slight preference. I'm not really on board with Necro's suggestion of starting with Attack 2 and getting +2 attack for each adjacent; I think it makes the unit's swingy value all the more extreme. Starting with three attacks of 6 is crazy strong, and a single attack of 2 is utter crap. 5x3 -> 3x1 is much more palatable.
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