Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #2221  
Old April 19th, 2018, 02:02 PM
Pumpkin_King's Avatar
Pumpkin_King Pumpkin_King is offline
A Happy Extradimensional Horror
 
Join Date: August 4, 2006
Location: Canada-AB-Calgary
Posts: 8,058
Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death!
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I’m of the opinion that every general needs a filler! But the mechanics on this one seem weird to me.
Reply With Quote
  #2222  
Old April 19th, 2018, 02:04 PM
flameslayer93's Avatar
flameslayer93 flameslayer93 is offline
I could go
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: In your Freezer (Maple Hts, Ohio)
Posts: 7,515
Images: 93
Blog Entries: 41
flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

How do Splash Damage attacks work with Howl of Chaos? Since those attacks don’t have to *target* Carny to affect him, that may not play nicely with HoC. That seems to be one reason ranged counterstrike abilities specify them being normal attacks.

Marker-based powers don’t seem like they’d be worth it on 10 pointer, so the SoV may not be keen there.

He does pretty balanced though. Cool story about Capt America!

My customs.
NE Ohio Tourney - TBA
SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points
AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS.
Reply With Quote
  #2223  
Old April 19th, 2018, 03:45 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is online now
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 12,059
Images: 485
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Anticipation of Violence is a lot of pizzazz for not much. As a cheap filler unit you won't be using it until endgame anyway. So it's little more than just a higher Attack value. Marker powers in general are used sparingly in VC and require some real value add to get through; I doubt a marker power would ever be supported for a 10pt filler.

Vengeful Howl of Chaos is too much to do too little. Lots and lots of preconditions and a postcondition take up a lot of card space and will rarely have any gameplay effect. It's too focused on providing theme.
Reply With Quote
  #2224  
Old April 19th, 2018, 05:04 PM
Sir Heroscape's Avatar
Sir Heroscape Sir Heroscape is offline
Sir Formerly Known As adoney
 
Join Date: September 14, 2015
Location: U.S - Iowa
Posts: 9,605
Images: 147
Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Anticipation of Violence doesn’t really bring many strategy decisions. Basically you’ll just put markers on him no question. There’s never really a reason you wouldn’t, unless you have another X order marker unit ( in which case you would have drafted poorly ). Just give him an attack of 5 and save yourself space for another ability or just have 1 ability alltogether

Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports
YouTube Channel, Trade List,
'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format
Tourney Record: 309 - 141
Online Record: 19 - 22
Reply With Quote
  #2225  
Old April 19th, 2018, 05:21 PM
BiggaBullfrog's Avatar
BiggaBullfrog BiggaBullfrog is offline
Usurper of Shenanigans (but only 10 points under)
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: USA - UT - Vernal
Posts: 2,664
Images: 241
Blog Entries: 4
BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Anticipation of Violence doesn’t really bring many strategy decisions. Basically you’ll just put markers on him no question. There’s never really a reason you wouldn’t, unless you have another X order marker unit ( in which case you would have drafted poorly ). Just give him an attack of 5 and save yourself space for another ability or just have 1 ability alltogether
To be fair, that's how most figures with X OM powers are, though I do agree with just cutting to the attack of 5 and dropping the ability.

I'm not at Kinseth's level of disinterest in 10 point heroes, and wouldn't mind one for each general, but I'm not interested in adding them just for the sake of adding more 10 pointers for each general. I am also getting at the point where I've seen enough that my gut reaction is "This had better be good." With that said, Carnifex isn't doing it for me right now.

My main concern is the design. Making 10 point glass cannons is decent for balance, but not for interesting designs. Isamu, and to an extent Otonashi (against Wild), already do that. While a figure doesn't need to be objectively better than another to see play, I do want it to offer something unique, and in the 10 point category I feel that space is particularly competitive.

Maybe you can put more focus into Vengeful Howl of Chaos. Right now I agree with what’s been said about it being too much flash and no bang, but having a figure designed around the theme of “If you kill me you’ll hurt too” is a lot more interesting strategically than a glass cannon. You could expand the concept to figures adjacent to him so he’s a little more useful sitting in your start zone. Though of course getting into auras is tricky because you may need to boost the points, but at the same time I’d rather see interesting higher point heroes than bland 10 point glass cannon filler.

Monthly Utah Tournaments in SLC!!
Maps | Customs | Battle Reports
10 Points Under Videos

"I'll save myself some time and say I pretty much 100% agree with Bigga" ~Flash_19
Reply With Quote
  #2226  
Old April 20th, 2018, 12:41 AM
Pumpkin_King's Avatar
Pumpkin_King Pumpkin_King is offline
A Happy Extradimensional Horror
 
Join Date: August 4, 2006
Location: Canada-AB-Calgary
Posts: 8,058
Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death!
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I do like Anticipation though. Maybe it can be simplified and used on something else - a sneaky ambush demon who gets +3 on a third order marker or something.
Reply With Quote
  #2227  
Old April 20th, 2018, 12:56 AM
BiggaBullfrog's Avatar
BiggaBullfrog BiggaBullfrog is offline
Usurper of Shenanigans (but only 10 points under)
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: USA - UT - Vernal
Posts: 2,664
Images: 241
Blog Entries: 4
BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun BiggaBullfrog is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I do like Anticipation though. Maybe it can be simplified and used on something else - a sneaky ambush demon who gets +3 on a third order marker or something.
That's a good idea, and I can definitely get behind the idea of a demon anticipating its turn to fight. Reading your post gave me the idea of something opposite but in a similar vein, where the power could let you reveal OM 1 on him to automatically win initiative. You'd get that first strike, but if it's on a 10 point dude you're going to have to use it well to get a good strike in. Would definitely make your opponent think twice about getting too close to him, though.

Monthly Utah Tournaments in SLC!!
Maps | Customs | Battle Reports
10 Points Under Videos

"I'll save myself some time and say I pretty much 100% agree with Bigga" ~Flash_19
Reply With Quote
  #2228  
Old April 20th, 2018, 07:38 AM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Enjoy the Sausage
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 27,984
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Lots of valuable input here. I just want to add that I think that forcing a price of 10 onto this unit is limiting, and hurting, this design far more than it’s helping. Try putting a 50 there instead, abandon the use of the X Marker, and consider the other feedback you’re getting here. You might like where you land.

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
= =
Reply With Quote
  #2229  
Old April 21st, 2018, 04:41 PM
caps's Avatar
caps caps is offline
My six-year-old sister-in-law calls the shots
 
Join Date: October 6, 2010
Location: USA - CO - Denver area
Posts: 16,674
Images: 352
caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth caps is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Lots of valuable input here. I just want to add that I think that forcing a price of 10 onto this unit is limiting, and hurting, this design far more than it’s helping. Try putting a 50 there instead, abandon the use of the X Marker, and consider the other feedback you’re getting here. You might like where you land.
I agree. I am not a fan of 10 point fillers coming through the SoV, personally. I'm not sure how many more we need.

Formerly known as capsocrates
--
Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations!
--
Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness
--
caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate

--
Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV
Reply With Quote
  #2230  
Old April 21st, 2018, 10:58 PM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Enjoy the Sausage
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 27,984
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Lots of valuable input here. I just want to add that I think that forcing a price of 10 onto this unit is limiting, and hurting, this design far more than it’s helping. Try putting a 50 there instead, abandon the use of the X Marker, and consider the other feedback you’re getting here. You might like where you land.
I agree. I am not a fan of 10 point fillers coming through the SoV, personally. I'm not sure how many more we need.
While I did intend to communicate this message, I also want to call attention to what I think was my bigger point: this mini, and this theme, deserve something bigger than 10 points. Try taking the mini and the theme to a higher power level, and see if you like what you find.

My 2 cents.

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
= =
Reply With Quote
  #2231  
Old April 23rd, 2018, 11:20 AM
The Dewk's Avatar
The Dewk The Dewk is offline
 
Join Date: November 19, 2016
Location: USA - UT - Salt Lake City
Posts: 484
Images: 28
The Dewk rolls all skulls baby! The Dewk rolls all skulls baby! The Dewk rolls all skulls baby! The Dewk rolls all skulls baby!
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
I don't see the need of another 10 point filler hero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I am not a fan of 10 point fillers coming through the SoV, personally. I'm not sure how many more we need.
I would love to know why you feel this way, as I feel the complete opposite - the 10 point slot is stale. 95% of the time, if one has 10 points to work with, one picks Isamu (as we all know, the only other option is Otonashi, and she's really only good for shenanigans). I love having choices. I love when the core of my 500 point army is fleshed out, and I've got 120 points left - do I bring one of the dozen+ heroes that cost 120, or do I bring a couple of 60 point squads, or do I do a combination of those things? Having options that do different things and have different strengths is awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #2232  
Old April 23rd, 2018, 11:22 AM
The Dewk's Avatar
The Dewk The Dewk is offline
 
Join Date: November 19, 2016
Location: USA - UT - Salt Lake City
Posts: 484
Images: 28
The Dewk rolls all skulls baby! The Dewk rolls all skulls baby! The Dewk rolls all skulls baby! The Dewk rolls all skulls baby!
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I’m of the opinion that every general needs a filler! But the mechanics on this one seem weird to me.
I agree we need more fillers! And I'm okay with you finding the mechanics on this guy weird - they sort of are (and the comments here have me realizing why; gotta love the workshop). He does play really well though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
How do Splash Damage attacks work with Howl of Chaos? Since those attacks don’t have to *target* Carny to affect him, that may not play nicely with HoC. That seems to be one reason ranged counterstrike abilities specify them being normal attacks.

Marker-based powers don’t seem like they’d be worth it on 10 pointer, so the SoV may not be keen there.

He does pretty balanced though. Cool story about Capt America!
I've played him how the card reads - if an area attack hits him, the Howl happens!
I didn't realize that X OM powers had a point threshold or requirement (and I currently don't feel that they should). But if one doesn't like a power, I can't argue with that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Anticipation of Violence is a lot of pizzazz for not much. As a cheap filler unit you won't be using it until endgame anyway. So it's little more than just a higher Attack value. Marker powers in general are used sparingly in VC and require some real value add to get through; I doubt a marker power would ever be supported for a 10pt filler.

Vengeful Howl of Chaos is too much to do too little. Lots and lots of preconditions and a postcondition take up a lot of card space and will rarely have any gameplay effect. It's too focused on providing theme.
Is there a reason why X OM powers are used sparingly in the ol' VC (I'm not contending this, I genuinely want to know the reasoning, so that I can possibly better follow established protocols going forward)? To me, they are just another way to get some design variety. In my mind, a 10 pointer with a base attack of 5 may be unbalanced, but commentators here have me thinking that may not be the case.

Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head for his Howl - it's more theme than gameplay, and complicates the design space (though he does play really well)! Thank you for pointing that out. The workshop is awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Anticipation of Violence doesn’t really bring many strategy decisions. Basically you’ll just put markers on him no question. There’s never really a reason you wouldn’t, unless you have another X order marker unit ( in which case you would have drafted poorly ). Just give him an attack of 5 and save yourself space for another ability or just have 1 ability alltogether
As Bigga said below, almost always putting the X OM on a figure that does something with the X OM is usually what those figures do. You're right that it doesn't make for many strategic decisions in-game, but I was thinking more of the strategy pre-game, when designing one's army (especially if more 10 point units existed). That's another vote for cutting the power and giving him a power of 5. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
I'm not at Kinseth's level of disinterest in 10 point heroes, and wouldn't mind one for each general, but I'm not interested in adding them just for the sake of adding more 10 pointers for each general. I am also getting at the point where I've seen enough that my gut reaction is "This had better be good." With that said, Carnifex isn't doing it for me right now.

My main concern is the design. Making 10 point glass cannons is decent for balance, but not for interesting designs. Isamu, and to an extent Otonashi (against Wild), already do that. While a figure doesn't need to be objectively better than another to see play, I do want it to offer something unique, and in the 10 point category I feel that space is particularly competitive.

Maybe you can put more focus into Vengeful Howl of Chaos. Right now I agree with what’s been said about it being too much flash and no bang, but having a figure designed around the theme of “If you kill me you’ll hurt too” is a lot more interesting strategically than a glass cannon. You could expand the concept to figures adjacent to him so he’s a little more useful sitting in your start zone. Though of course getting into auras is tricky because you may need to boost the points, but at the same time I’d rather see interesting higher point heroes than bland 10 point glass cannon filler.
I agree with you 100% - more 10 pointers, but they need to be really interesting (I'd even say more interesting than all other units, as they would theoretically be being used the most). While I find this fella interesting, I do recognize that others do not. I would argue (for the sake of arguing) that neither Isamu or Otonashi fit the glass cannon archetype though. Isamu is more of a jack of all trades (hits decently, defends decently, moves well), while Otonashi is just Johnny shenanigans. Carnifex would bring something new to the table (a filler that stomps around with 5 attack no matter what (well, if you pumped him)), but if he lacks pizzaz in your eyes, that is valid! Thank you Bigga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Lots of valuable input here. I just want to add that I think that forcing a price of 10 onto this unit is limiting, and hurting, this design far more than it’s helping. Try putting a 50 there instead, abandon the use of the X Marker, and consider the other feedback you’re getting here. You might like where you land.

I also want to call attention to what I think was my bigger point: this mini, and this theme, deserve something bigger than 10 points. Try taking the mini and the theme to a higher power level, and see if you like what you find.

My 2 cents.
Interesting points, @Dad_Scaper ! Do you often look at a miniature and think to yourself, "what point cost should this be, and what could I see it doing?" I usually work backwards from that - think of a cool power or theme, and then try and find a mini for it, and then flesh it out/go from there.

After considering what others have said, I do see that Carnifex just doesn't have the it factor in his current iteration. And I have to admit, although he does play really well and I would be happy to have him marching around in more than just my in-house games, he never did get me as pumped as the other 10 pointer I have submitted to the SoV (or my brother's, for that matter).

I'll shelve him and his powers for now, maybe tinker with him in the near future, and see what I can come up with. Thank you everyone!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C3G Dredd'verse workshop Tornado C3G Legacy 1080 July 19th, 2023 11:14 AM
MiniatureGeek's Custom Workshop #1 Miniature Geek Other Customization & HS Additions 14 August 20th, 2009 10:37 PM
Sci Fi Terrain by Games Workshop RichardD Custom Terrain & Obstacles 12 August 4th, 2009 02:38 PM
Bad_Calvin's Workshop - update 4-7 bad_calvin Custom Terrain & Obstacles 54 June 5th, 2009 09:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.