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  #13  
Old November 9th, 2022, 12:43 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

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Whatever went wrong with the first attempt at funding Age of Annihilation, it's behind us.
It's literally not even behind us yet

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Whatever went wrong with the first attempt at funding Age of Annihilation, it's behind us.
There’s still 8 days left in the campaign. Chill.

I would be open to the idea of this iteration of AH HS funding if anyone who thinks it will fund would pair that opinion with the reason why they think that.



Who are the 5.5K people who are going to fund this and what's going to change to make them fund it? If we don't know, then this iteration is behind us.
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  #14  
Old November 9th, 2022, 01:00 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

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I would be open to the idea of this iteration of AH HS funding if anyone who thinks it will fund would pair that opinion with the reason why they think that.

Who are the 5.5K people who are going to fund this and what's going to change to make them fund it? If we don't know, then this iteration is behind us.
There are two numbers we don't know yet:
- how many people know about the campaign and are waiting to back until closer to the finish (for whatever reason)
- how many people don't know about the campaign but will find out about it because of marketing pushes (new videos on youtube, etc.) and will back it

Until the campaign ends we won't know if those people + current backers = 8000+.

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  #15  
Old November 9th, 2022, 01:24 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

Quick note. 4.5K needed, not 5.5K. Every bit helps right now lol.

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  #16  
Old November 9th, 2022, 01:38 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
Who are the 5.5K people who are going to fund this and what's going to change to make them fund it? If we don't know, then this iteration is behind us.
How about out of respect to those who worked tirelessly for over a year on this project (2?), many from this very site, we don't slam the door on them until the clock hits zero and then only if we haven't made it?

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  #17  
Old November 9th, 2022, 02:05 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
Who are the 5.5K people who are going to fund this and what's going to change to make them fund it? If we don't know, then this iteration is behind us.
How about out of respect to those who worked tirelessly for over a year on this project (2?), many from this very site, we don't slam the door on them until the clock hits zero and then only if we haven't made it?
Yeah respect for the designers who've sacrificed and worked around the clock to build this is my main rationale as well
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  #18  
Old November 9th, 2022, 07:46 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
Who are the 5.5K people who are going to fund this and what's going to change to make them fund it? If we don't know, then this iteration is behind us.
How about out of respect to those who worked tirelessly for over a year on this project (2?), many from this very site, we don't slam the door on them until the clock hits zero and then only if we haven't made it?
Yeah respect for the designers who've sacrificed and worked around the clock to build this is my main rationale as well
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
Who are the 5.5K people who are going to fund this and what's going to change to make them fund it? If we don't know, then this iteration is behind us.
How about out of respect to those who worked tirelessly for over a year on this project (2?), many from this very site, we don't slam the door on them until the clock hits zero and then only if we haven't made it?

AH Scape looks amazing and we all want it to fund. That's why we're brainstorming ways to accomplish that. I don't want to see that good work thrown away.

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Originally Posted by caps View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
I would be open to the idea of this iteration of AH HS funding if anyone who thinks it will fund would pair that opinion with the reason why they think that.

Who are the 5.5K people who are going to fund this and what's going to change to make them fund it? If we don't know, then this iteration is behind us.
There are two numbers we don't know yet:
- how many people know about the campaign and are waiting to back until closer to the finish (for whatever reason)
- how many people don't know about the campaign but will find out about it because of marketing pushes (new videos on youtube, etc.) and will back it

Until the campaign ends we won't know if those people + current backers = 8000+.
These are good points, but realistically not enough.

Group 1: I can imagine people waiting for a paycheck, waiting to see if their friends would play, etc. But the crowdfunding format removes most of the people who'd otherwise wait because it doesn't charge unless it funds. I haven't heard of any crowdfunding campaign which followed a similar trend as this one that more than doubled in the final days. A very high estimate for this group might be 500.

Group 2: We can estimate these based on the marketing pushes that have been happening the last few weeks. Probably fewer than 100.

Not to say those are bad numbers, just not close to 8k.


Anyway, that's not really what I wanted to get into with this thread. But anyone is more than welcome to wait and see.
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  #19  
Old November 9th, 2022, 08:10 PM
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Smile Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

Some other ideas for revisions:
  • Reduce the number of unique figures in the box (the largest box if there will be multiple tiers). If the fixed mold costs are a large part of the required investment, no shame in reducing it a bit.
  • Re-use existing molds from Heroscape or any compatible Hasbro game
  • Expanding on the previous, re-use molds multiple times, like has been done for HS in the past (Gencon exclusives, Yeti/Bigfoot, etc.) With different colors for the different versions. Or, more creatively something like Raelin/Dark Raelin sharing the same figure.

The other big thing is the marketing strategy. Some ideas here:
  • The landing page is crucial, since that's where potential buyers land whenever they hear about the new set from a friend or media. We could have a higher conversion rate with some revisions.
  • Reduce the intensity of the colors in the marketing material. We all love the revised colors, but it's not yet reflected on the pulse page.
  • Create "painting suggestion"s for each of/some of the most iconic figures. The more appealing the marketing, the higher the conversion rate. It also gives a nice guide for those happy to paint at home.
  • Video content. This is another big one, since it's what people spend their attention on. Points to hit here are invoking nostalgia from people who played a decade ago, and explain the game (doable because it's simple) in an exciting way.
  • These videos could also showcase the app or fun scenarios in an exciting way.
  • The material should include a value statement. Why Heroscape? I personally like the game because of its low barriers to entry and high potential for depth of strategy. But I don't know that this is being communicated right now.
  • Use existing Hasbro marketing channels to target tangential gamers of the demographics HS appeals to. This might already be happening, but we originally had lots of comments that the launch took us by surprise.
  • Contact as many influencers as is feasible. A good review from a popular persona is a source of persuasive authority. And the more of these we have, the more powerful the effect.
  • Maybe a wholesale price for local shops?
  • A launch tournament with a prize?

There are lots of talented people here more than willing to help!
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  #20  
Old November 12th, 2022, 10:03 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

The initial launch and overall marketing definitely feels like a huge misstep in the goal of trying to get this funded. Also I as I've agreed with many here, the $250 pricetag was way way too high of an entry point. I think many, many of us only got into the game intitially because the Master Set was so affordable, and offered so much for its price.

I definitely would have never dreamed of playing this game at the price they're asking for back then, and I don't think AH should expect 8000 backers to do the same.

In summary, Asking price is WAY too high, and the "required goal" is also far too loft, especially at the cost.

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  #21  
Old November 15th, 2022, 05:50 AM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

I was very surprised it didn't come out in a format similar to other tabletop games. I expected to see:

Master Set: Cyborgs vs. Critters - enough terrain for basic battlefields, 2 factions, dice and OMs for two players.
Master Set: Druids vs. Bugs - same thing, different factions

Figure Expansion 1: Pirates 1 - 2-4 unique pirate heroes
Figure Expansion 2: Pirates 2 - 6-8 common pirate squad figures

Terrain Expansion 1: Forest - 6-9 Trees
Terrain Expansion 2: Castle - a bunch of castle pieces, but maybe like half of what is in the AoA set.
Terrain Expansion 3: More land and water

I think something like how Swarm of the Marro and Battle for the Underdark did Commons/Uncommons in Master Sets is acceptable - with the possible option of offering the commons additionally in add-on packs. That gives some incentive (Terrain + more commons) to buy multiples.

That would have been doable with the stuff they already made anyways for AoA, it's more just a repackaging thing.


Additionally, I really think they could have done better with showing off with HeroScape - where are the cards for the airship and the dragon??? Where are pictures that show what a guy can do with 1000 dollars worth of terrain? This started with a very sparse showing at Gencon that was only impressive because I knew what HeroScape is and recognized it (okay, the dragon was cool too, but other than that....)

And I think some better choices could have been made as far as what figures are offered, especially if the goal was to get the old audience on board. I am very, super, very super impressed with how the C3V project has filled in thematic gaps and expanded on themes in a way that really feels like original HeroScape. Historical Pirates and Skeleton Cavalry, the Grut Mammoth, another Elemental for Kurrok, the bear-riding Dwarves, a Aquilla flagbearer - that kind of stuff would have been irresistible.

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Last edited by Tai-Pan; November 15th, 2022 at 08:11 AM.
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  #22  
Old November 15th, 2022, 08:20 AM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

I'd love a tier that doesn't include any normal hexes, just the figures, new ruins, and new jungle pieces.

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  #23  
Old November 15th, 2022, 07:04 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

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I'd love a tier that doesn't include any normal hexes, just the figures, new ruins, and new jungle pieces.
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Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
I was very surprised it didn't come out in a format similar to other tabletop games.

Additionally, I really think they could have done better with showing off with HeroScape - where are the cards for the airship and the dragon??? Where are pictures that show what a guy can do with 1000 dollars worth of terrain? This started with a very sparse showing at Gencon that was only impressive because I knew what HeroScape is and recognized it (okay, the dragon was cool too, but other than that....)

And I think some better choices could have been made as far as what figures are offered, especially if the goal was to get the old audience on board. I am very, super, very super impressed with how the C3V project has filled in thematic gaps and expanded on themes in a way that really feels like original HeroScape. Historical Pirates and Skeleton Cavalry, the Grut Mammoth, another Elemental for Kurrok, the bear-riding Dwarves, a Aquilla flagbearer - that kind of stuff would have been irresistible.
Great ideas!

I saw some other solid ideas on Reddit I'll add here.

  • Re-use figures within the same squad.
  • Use baseboards from Arena of the Planeswalkers (Hasbro's other game, for which the terrain is compatible).
  • Alternatively, a better version of those baseboards.
Not sure how costly the terrain is, though. Another one is the obstacles. Opportunity to reprint or create something unique. I'll compile the best ones in the OP.

HS is super viable with some cost cutting measures and online retailing/inventory management.
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  #24  
Old November 15th, 2022, 08:16 PM
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Re: This is how Avalon Hill Heroscape succeeds

Here is how I would tackle a relaunch. Shoot for a 100-150 price point. Enough to field a bit of variety, and a decent mix of uniques and commons (1:2 uniques to commons). Enough terrain to make a small map with a handful of each terrain size. Each unique has an alternate card, so buying multiples actually makes some sense.

That gives them a realistic snapshot of the market for new Heroscape at current prices, they can cover the cost of the tooling and whatever other production costs for an initial product line to market to game stores, and they can produce the core terrain a la carte moving forward.

3-6 months down the road they can roll out another slate of minis, but this time they feature the castle pieces. After that the jungle pieces.
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