Heroes of Star Wars: Battle Tests

[Balantai]

Great work, David. Thanks for all your help with this.

[davidlhsl]

Episode IV complete. I've jotted brief comments for each figure in the Episode Index. Reminder: Don't forget changes to Princess Leia.

I've printed the cards for Episode V, and will go over those figures to determine any questions or issues. Once I've done that, I'll post an Episode Index.

[davidlhsl]

Episode V

Initial Questions (12/10/11) - Completed with initial questions. Adding comments.

Spoiler Alert!

(05/19/11) See figures below for questions and comments.

Boba Fett

Spoiler Alert!

Reserved

Chewbacca (11/30/11)

Spoiler Alert!

(11/30/11) Wookiee Life Debt's +2 move works really well with Han's Never Tell Me the Odds Special.

Yoda (05/26/11)

Spoiler Alert!

(05/19/11) You could probably lose the word normal in Force Spirit and simply say “1 to the attack number”
(05/19/11) Let’s say I place an order marker on Yoda, and the opponent gets initiative and kills Yoda in the first turn. Now Yoda is placed on someone, such as Luke, to provide his Force Spirit. It seems that Luke would gain bonuses for both Force Inspiration and Force Spirit until the end of the round.
(05/26/11) Answer: Once Yoda is destroyed, special powers are no longer in effect unless specifically stated in the power. So Force Spirit would work, but Force Inspiration would disappear.

Lando Calrissian (05/19/11)

Spoiler Alert!

(05/19/11) 40 points??? Yeah, you’re basing this on Marcu. Conflicting Interests would make Lando vulnerable to walking into lava or falling off a cliff. You did improve this over Marcu by making the roll 1-4 rather than 17-20.

Bespin Guards

Spoiler Alert!

Reserved

Rebel Snow Troopers (11/29/11)

Spoiler Alert!

(05/19/11) Needs comma after “move this turn” in Dug In. “Snow Defence” should be spelled “Snow Defense”.
(09/21/11) Spelling fixed.
(11/29/11) See concern about parity with Snowtroopers in Battle V-02

Snowtroopers (12/10/11)

Spoiler Alert!

(11/30/11) See concern about parity with Rebel Snow Troopers in Battle V-02. I suggest replacing Glacier Camouflage. Snow Defense might work, but I think Glacier Defense would work better: +1 against ranged attacks if adjacent to glacier mountain.
(12/01/11) Will now consider Snowtroopers to have Snow Defense instead of Glacier Camouflage.
(12/10/11) Glacier Camouflage replaced with Snow Defense per discussion in Project's thread.

Lobot

Spoiler Alert!

Reserved

IG-88 (11/28/11)

Spoiler Alert!

(05/19/11) On Unscrupulous, I assume that if the chosen Bounty figure is within 4 clear sight spaces of multiple IG-88s, that they each remove 2 wound markers. It also seems to apply regardless of which figure destroyed it. For example, Boba Fett places a Bounty on Han Solo. Han Solo is adjacent to 3 IG-88s and is killed by Darth Vader. The 3 IG-88s would each heal 2 wounds. Also, if playing a 3 or 4 player game, Unscrupulous would also apply if the chosen figure is controlled by another player.
(05/19/11) On Killer Instinct, would he keep attacking as long as he keeps inflicting a wound? Also, could the second attack be a normal attack? I'm thinking yes, though I'm not sure why I would want to do that.
(05/26/11) Answer: Only 1 IG-88 gets Unscrupulous, and IG-88 can keep attacking until no wound delivered or target destroyed.
(06/30/11) Project will make following changes: Wording clarification to indicate IG-88's Killer Instincts can keep attacking; and only one IG-88 per player can collect Bounty with Unscrupulous.
(11/28/11) Wording on IG-88's card seems to reflect both the ability to continue attacking with special attack, and it's clear that only one IG-88 per player gets Unscrupulous. Card looks good to me!

Battles
Draft of optional AT-AT rules for Hoth battles (11/30/11)

Battle V-01 (05/25/11): Star Wars only.
Battle V-01a (05/26/11): Same matchup with different strategy.
Battle V-01b (05/30/11): Similar matchup with one squad per side.
Battle V-01c (05/30/11): Final matchup with this group, with both sides fielding large number of squads.
Battle V-02 (11/29/11): Hoth battle. Snowball fight, anyone?
Battle V-02a (11/30/11): Sames as Battle V-02 with some tweaks. Most important change is testing change to Snowtroopers.
Battle V-03 (12/02/11): Rebels vs Classic
Battle V-03a (12/10/11): Empire vs Classic

[davidlhsl]

Battle V-01 (Star Wars only)
05/25/2011

Map: C3G Swamp Lab, no glyphs (I guess Cloud City sank into the swamp!)

Team A: Darth Vader, Boba Fett, Stormtroopers x 1 (500)
Team B: Lando Calrissian, Lobot, IG-88 x 1, Bespin Guards x 4 (510)

Test Objectives

Spoiler Alert!

Introduction to Episode V.

Battle Report

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1
Boba Fett places a Bounty on Lobot. Bespin Guards use Multiple Duties for +1 Defense.

Darth Vader moves forward.

Lobot Network Uplinks IG-88, who steps forward. Lobot remains in place.

Stormtroopers step forward.

Lobot Uplinks Bespin Guards, who move forward.

Boba Fetts moves forward.

Lobot Uplinks Bespin Guards, who move to the right pier. One advances from the start zone.

Round 2
Bespin Guards keep +1 Defense.

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who moves towards the lab. IG-88 fires at Stormtrooper, killing it (3 left).

Darth Vader steps forward.

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who retreats to the Right Sandbar of the map and fires at Range 8 on Darth Vader, dealing 1 wound (3 left).

Stormtroopers gather in Vader’s IP range to get +1 attack. One fires on a Bespin Guard, but the attack is blocked, even with Marksmanship. One fires on IG-88, but the attack is blocked. The other Stormtrooper is out of range.

Lobot Uplinks Bespin Guards. First attack on a Stormtrooper is blocked. Second attack on a Stormtrooper takes him down (2 left). Third attack on a Stormtrooper takes him down (1 left).

Last Stormtrooper makes a brave stand and fires on IG-88, but whiffs the roll.

Round 3
Bespin Guards switch to +1 attack.

Vader advances towards IG-88.

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who climbs halfway up the right ladder for height, and fires his Killer Instinct Special Attack on Vader. Attack is blocked.

Boba Fett Jetpacks to the left side of the roof. He fires down on a Bespin Guard below, taking him down (11 left).

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who reaches the right side of the roof and fires his normal attack on Vader. Blocked.

Vader approaches right ladder.

Lobot Uplinks Bespin Guards, who have height on Vader. They take down Vader and the last Stormtrooper!

Round 4
Bespin Guards keep with +1 attack.

Boba Fett takes the knob on the roof and fires his normal attack on IG-88 for 1 wound (5 left).

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who takes the other roof knob level and adjacent to Boba Fett and attacks with Killer Instinct. Attack whiffs.

Boba strikes at IG-88, dealing 2 wounds (3 left).

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who attacks with Killer Instinct. Blocked.

Boba attacks IG-88, landing a wound (2 left).

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who repeats the dance. Boba takes a wound (4 left), so IG-88 gets to attack again. Second attack blocked.

Round 5
Bespin Guards stick with +1 attack.

Lobot Uplinks IG-88, who continues the game. Blocked.

Boba attacks, but whiffs.

IG-88 deals a second wound (3 left), and Killer Instincts allow a second attack. Second attack deals a wound (2 left). Another attack deals a wound (1 left), and IG-88 is able to deliver the fatal blow to take out Boba Fett.

Survivors: Lando Calrissian (0 wounds), Lobot (0 wounds), Bespin Guards (11 left), IG-88 (4 wounds)

Comments

Spoiler Alert!

Wow, what a blowout! Squads x 4 vs only one squad of Stormtroopers gave Team B a huge advantage. I also made a mistake in playing Vader too early. Vader’s lack of range really hurts him. I should’ve pressed the attack with Boba Fett earlier. I’m also thinking IG-88 would’ve been a better Bounty target.

I’ll try this same matchup again with this in mind, then I’ll replace Bespin Guards x 2 with another IG-88 to see what happens.

[Balantai]

David,

For Unscrupulous, only 1 IG-88 should get the benefit of the Bounty. We'll need to reword that. It's supposed to represent IG-88 stealing the killing blow and stealing the Bounty.

For Killer Instinct, I would think it means that he can continue attacking with his Special Attack until he fails to inflict at least one wound.

[Balantai]

(05/19/11) Let’s say I place an order marker on Yoda, and the opponent gets initiative and kills Yoda in the first turn. Now Yoda is placed on someone, such as Luke, to provide his Force Spirit. It seems that Luke would gain bonuses for both Force Inspiration and Force Spirit until the end of the round.

I don't think this is true, David. Once Yoda is destroyed, Special Powers no longer work unless specifically stated within that Special Power.

[davidlhsl]

Battle V-01a (Star Wars only)
05/26/2011

Map: C3G Swamp Lab, no glyphs

Team A: Darth Vader, Boba Fett, Stormtroopers x 1 (500)
Team B: Lando Calrissian, Lobot, IG-88 x 1, Bespin Guards x 4 (510)

Test Objectives

Spoiler Alert!

Trying the same matchup a second time to see if switching tactics improves Team A’s performance.

Battle Report

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1
Boba Fett places Bounty on IG-88.
Round 2
Boba Fett kills 2 Bespin Guards (10 left)
Bespin Guards kill 3 Stormtroopers in start zone (1 left)
Bespin Guards deal 1 wound on Boba Fett
Round 3
Boba Fett kills 1 Bespin Guard (8 left)
Bespin Guards deal 4 wounds on Boba Fett (K.O.)
Darth Vader kills 1 Bespin Guard (8 left)
Round 4
Darth Vader Force Chokes 1 Bespin Guard (6 left)
Darth Vader kills 1 Bespin Guard (6 left)
Darth Vader takes an engagement strike from a Bespin Guard
Darth Vader deals 1 wound to IG-88
Darth Vader Force Chokes IG-88 and destroys him!
IG-88 deals 1 wound with Killer Instinct to Darth Vader
Bespin Guards deal 3 wounds to Darth Vader (KO)
Round 5
Bespin Guards kill final Stormtrooper

Survivors: Lobot, Lando Calrissian, Bespin Guards x 6

Comments

Spoiler Alert!

Better performance this time by Vader’s side, though it’s tough for heroes to swat a swarm of squad figures. Not drafting multiple Stormtroopers hurts this side; but I’m playing within Classic Heroscape point parameters, which is 400-500 points. Perhaps I need to ditch Vader and try Boba Fett with Stormtroopers x 3, though that leaves them at a 40 point disadvantage.

I’ll stick with my plan and play the next game with IG-88 x 2, and Bespin Guards x 1 against Team A’s current draft. This will level the squad field. Then I’ll play a game with Team B back to this setup, and Team A without Vader and more Stormtroopers for Boba Fett.

[davidlhsl]

Battle V-01b (Star Wars only)
05/30/2011

Map: C3G Swamp Lab, no glyphs

Team A: Darth Vader, Boba Fett, Stormtroopers x 1 (500)
Team B: Lando Calrissian, Lobot, IG-88 x 2, Bespin Guards x 1 (490)

Test Objectives

Spoiler Alert!

Trying the same matchup a third time to see if squads x 1 produces a more even battle.

Battle Report

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1
Boba Fett has Bounty on IG-88 (red).
Round 2
IG-88 (blue) takes down 1 Stormtrooper (3 left)
Stormtroopers deal 2 wounds to IG-88 (blue) (4 left)
Bespin Guards take down 2 Stormtroopers (1 left)
Stormtrooper deals 1 wound to IG-88 (blue (3 left)
Round 3
Stormtrooper takes down 1 Bespin Guard (2 left)
IG-88 (blue) takes down final Stormtrooper (KO)
Darth Vader takes down Bespin Guard with normal attack (1 left)
Round 4
Darth Vader deals 4 wounds to Lobot (KO). Lobot has all the order markers, so Vader gets the rest of the round to himself!
Darth Vader Force Chokes IG-88 (red) for 1 wound (5 left)
Darth Vader Force Chokes IG-88 (red) for 1 wound (4 left)
Round 5
Darth Vader Force Chokes IG-88 (red) for 1 wound (3 left)
IG-88 takes engagement strike from Vader (2 left) to get height on Vader.
Darth Vader Force Chokes Lando for 2 wounds (2 left)
Round 6
Lando’s Conflicting Interests allows Vader to take a turn with him.
Darth Vader deals 3 wounds to Lando (KO)
IG-88 (blue) deals 1 wound with Killer Instinct on Vader (3 left)
Darth Vader deals 1 wound to IG-88 (red) (1 left)
Round 7
IG-88 (blue) moves to range 4 of IG-88 (red) to take advantage of Unscrupulous in case IG-88 (red, Bounty target) is taken out.
Vader breaks engagement with IG-88 (red) with 0 wounds, engages IG-88 (blue) and deals 4 wounds to IG-88 (blue) (KO). IG-88 (blue) has all the order markers, so Team B loses turns for rest of round.
Vader kills last Bespin Guard (all KO).
Vader Force Chokes IG-88 (red) and deals 1 wound (KO)

Survivors: Darth Vader (1 wound/3 left), Boba Fett (0 wounds/5 left)

Comments

Spoiler Alert!

Team A finally won a game. Vader is a figure you have to play very aggressively in order to put figures into Force Choke range. Vader defended very well in this game.

Fielding only one squad of figures seemed to be a huge liability for both sides. It’ll be interesting to see how the next battle plays, where I will field multiple squads on both sides by removing Vader from Team A.

IG-88 is a very nasty unit. In some respects, I’m wondering if he should have a lower move or lower life. We’ll have to see how he performs in future battles. I need to see how he works when drafting the full 4 figures.

Lando got into the battle for the first time, and he was fun to play in this battle.

[davidlhsl]

Battle V-01c (Star Wars only)
05/30/2011

Map: C3G Swamp Lab, no glyphs

Team A: Boba Fett, Stormtroopers x 4 (560)
Team B: Lando Calrissian, Lobot, IG-88 x 1, Bespin Guards x 5 (570)

Test Objectives

Spoiler Alert!

Trying the same matchup a fourth time to see if multiple squads on each side produce a more even battle.

Battle Report

Spoiler Alert!

Boba Fett has Bounty on IG-88.
Round 1
Stormtroopers take down 2 Bespin Guards (13 left)
Bespin Guards take down 1 Stormtrooper (15 left)
Stormtroopers take down 2 Bespin Guards (11 left)
Round 2
Stormtroopers take down 2 Bespin Guards (9 left)
Bespin Guards take down 2 Stormtroopers (13 left)
Stormtroopers take down 2 Bespin Guards (7 left)
Bespin Guards take down 2 Stormtroopers (11 left)
Stormtroopers take down 1 Bespin Guard (6 left)
Bespin Guards take down 2 Stormtroopers (9 left)
Round 3
Bespin Guards take down 2 Stormtroopers (7 left)
Stormtroopers take down 1 Bespin Guard (5 left)
Round 4
Stormtroopers take down 2 Bespin Guards (3 left)
Bespin Guards take down 2 Stormtroopers (5 left)
Bespin Guards take down 2 Stormtroopers (3 left)
Stormtroopers take down 1 Bespin Guard (2 left)
Round 5
Stormtroopers take down 1 Bespin Guard (1 left)
Bespin Guard takes down 1 Stormtrooper (2 left) Lobot takes down 1 Stormtrooper (1 left)
Boba Fett deals 1 wound to Lobot (2 left)
Bespin Guard deals 2 wounds to Boba Fett (3 left)
IG-88 takes down last Stormtrooper (all KO)
Round 6
Boba Fett deals 2 wounds to Lobot (KO). Lobot only loses one turn.
Boba Fett deals 3 wounds to IG-88 (3 left)
Boba Fett deals 2 wounds to IG-88 (1 left)
Round 7
Boba Fett deals 2 wounds on IG-88 (KO), heals 2 wounds from the Bounty (now at 5 left)
Boba Fett deals 4 wounds to Lando (KO)
Boba Fett kills final Bespin Guard (all KO)

Survivor: Boba Fett (0 wounds/5 left)

Comments

Spoiler Alert!

This battle felt very balanced and confirms the problem Team A had in the first two battles.

Boba Fett and Darth Vader are such high-cost figures that you can’t really draft them both in the standard 500 point Heroscape army and have room left over for Stormtroopers.

I’m satisfied with this grouping and am ready to play some of the other figures in the episode.

[Balantai]

Great battle reports, David.

[mac122]

Nice job, Dave!

From your battles, do the figures seem balanced and priced properly?

[davidlhsl]

Originally Posted by mac122

Nice job, Dave!

From your battles, do the figures seem balanced and priced properly?

The only question in my mind regarding cost is I'm thinking Tusken Raiders seem more like 50 point figures instead of 75. Not sure if it's my play style, though. These guys need to be turtled to keep them grouped together for the Ambush, but you sacrifice getting some to advantageous ground. I think the latter situation makes setting the ambush more difficult, as it's more important to put some of these guys in good sniping positions.

As a point of comparison, take a look at the Gamorrean Guards. They are only 45 points, but they have really beefed stats. That's appropriate for melee. I haven't played them yet, but I'm not seeing Tusken Raiders being almost twice the Guards just from the numbers.

One really fun aspect of playing these battles is that they are pulling me back into Classic Heroscape's power range. I've been playing the supers for so long that it's a real culture shock to switch back. I got into Heroscape after Wave 3. Back then, most people were playing 400 point armies. That's the reason for my point reference. Not sure what people are playing now, but I'm thinking it's now 500-600 points. With Heroscape, if you play too few points, you get the blowout situations you've seen in Battles V-01 and V-01a. If you play too many points, troop management becomes difficult with not enough order markers to go around. I think I'll establish 500 points as the default, and need to deprogram myself away from the 400 points that I had played for so long. That goes for Classic Scape as well.

An interesting aspect of the Star Wars universe for Heroscape is that Classic Heroscape emphasizes squads with few heroes (at least, before DnD), while Super Heroscape (and DnD) emphasizes many heroes and few or no squads. Star Wars, on the other hand, has a mix between heroes and squads. That can create a problem, as squads typically overwhelm heroes. If I run into future blowout situations, I may bump point values to 600 as I did in the last battle before passing judgement.

Fun factor is huge so far. Darth Vader is tremendous fun to play. Princess Leia is a great commander figure, and she really kicks butt and takes names. Han requires considerable finesse to get his abilities in gear. I'm looking forward to pairing him with Chewie. My dice HATE Obi-wan, but that's my problem.

On this latest episode I'm testing, IG-88 has an issue regarding Unscrupulous I've mentioned in the index that Balantai has answered. I need to see how 4x works, but the last battle I played was really balanced.

Once I've finished my C3G battle in my other thread, I'll set up Ice Blossom (BoV) for some Hoth action.