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  #25  
Old December 21st, 2015, 06:08 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

For all the complaints about Kylo, that's exactly why he was so great. He was just a poser kid who idolizes grandpa. That's why he wears the mask, because he's totally normal and boring underneath it. He was one of my favorite parts of the films.

He killed Han to make himself cool. But even after that he was pulverized by two novices (Admittedly he got shot by a bowcaster. Nasty wound). He's super powerful (As evidenced at the beginning of the film), but completely raw and untrained. He didn't know how to use a saber outside of swinging it, and has never dealt with resistance to his torture, so he really hardly knew anything. Snoke even said he had to finish his training after being walloped.

Starkiller Base just should not have existed. Without it I might not have noticed all the similarities to A New Hope. But just blatantly ripping off so many scenes put a bad taste in my mouth, with Starkiller being the main one.

Aside from the New Hope copy, it was a fantastic film. The new cast was phenomenal. Finn got annoying slightly a few times, but aside from that, everyone was spot on. Poe was probably my favorite character!
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  #26  
Old December 21st, 2015, 06:11 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Looks like a tough crowd in this thread.

It closely mirrored the first, but I think that was by design. A bit of homage. Certainly the story in general and the characters in particular followed their own paths as well.

I thought the original trilogy was fine storytelling, and I thought this new version was faithful to what was the best the original trilogy had to offer. I look forward to the next one.

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  #27  
Old December 21st, 2015, 07:02 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Yeah, it was a great movie, despite all my nitpicks. I just hope Episode VIII can do better to be its own thing, now that the first one was a great success. If VIII has as many similarities to Empire as TFA had to New Hope, then I'll start to get worried for the new saga.

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  #28  
Old December 21st, 2015, 07:28 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

I've seen it three times now, and each time I've found it more enjoyable, to the point where it's probably my third favorite Star Wars movie. The casting was top notch all around, as far as I'm concerned, and the scripting had that classic Star Warsiness that was all but absent in the prequels. The story itself was good, but I felt that some of the details could have been ironed out a little bit better.

For example, I've seen it three times and I still do not understand exactly the roles of the First Order and the Resistance, and where exactly the Republic fits into the conflict. They kept saying the Resistance is "backed by the Republic", which would make it a separate entity, but why is this differentiation necessary? Also, I wish I had a better idea as to how strong the First Order was in comparison to the Republic, as it would have given some more depth to when Starkiller Base blew up the planets. Compared to IV, where you really got the clue that the Rebel Alliance was not much more than a ragtag group with some starfighters, the scale of the grand conflict wasn't as clearly defined in this movie.

But really, this is a minor complaint from a perfectionist fan, and I am sure that the macro-conflict will be fleshed out a little more in the coming movies.

In terms of the new characters, most were handled exceptionally well in The Force Awakens. The worst part of the prequels, to me anyways, is that I could never bring myself to care that much about any of the characters. This time around, it was a completely different story.

Rey was perfect, and could not have been cast better. To me, Rey's character comprises all of the best aspects of Luke, Leia and Han, which leads me to believe that she is Leia and Han's daughter. I think Han had an idea right away, but kept it to himself, as a way to, at least in theory, keep her out of the conflict. I think that Kylo Ren also had an inkling himself, but I don't exactly know why he would keep his cards to himself. But I think, as the saga continues, a Rey-Ren conflict works best with them as siblings. Plus Chewbacca's quickly developed positive attitude towards Rey helps this theory a little bit.

Which brings us to Kylo Ren. I was a little turned off, at first, by the character thanks to the ending of the movie. I didn't like how he struggled and was ultimately defeated by an untrained force user. After watching it again, it is clear that the bowcaster wound Ren sustained from Chewie was taking a toll, so it makes sense that a force user like Rey, albeit untrained, found a way to best Kylo Ren in that skirmish. It brings some more humanity to Ren's character, while also giving Rey an opportunity to showcase her potential.

One of the more intriguing characters, to me, is Finn. Performance wise, John Boyega was outstanding, and the character fits right into the Star Wars saga. He was funny and easy to like, and really added a ton to the movie. The question is, can he use the force? Most non-force users are not as comfortable with a lightsaber as he seemed to be, although he wasn't exactly the best with it. Did the force "awaken" within him, giving him some power he didn't know he had, and driving him to desert the First Order? Or was he just tired of being a drone in the First Order machine? I can't wait to see how Finn develops, assuming he recovers from his injuries.

I really liked Poe Dameron, I just wanted to see a little more of the character. Right now, I don't think there is any hidden connection between him and the rest of the characters, but that could change. Poe has an attitude that other characters feed off easily, and I hope his character takes on more of a center role over the next two films.

Maz Kanata was another very strong character, especially being CGI. Lupita Nyong'o brought a different level of believability to CGI with this performance. While Maz certainly leaves us with many questions and not many answers, the character was well-done. I can't imagine that her role is over in the series.

Snap Wexley rounded out the cast of new good guys, giving us another Wedge Antilles-like character who should prove to be a fun addition to the franchise.

My opinion is not as strong about General Hux, Supreme Leader Snoke and Captain Phasma. They certainly were not the focus of this movie, so we will have to see how these characters pan out as the series goes on.

Overall there is a ton to love about this movie. While there are a lot of parallels between The Force Awakens and A New Hope, I don't think this movie can be categorized as a remake, nor should it. In my opinion, there is a big difference between borrowing story-telling elements and remaking a movie. At the end of the day, The Force Awakens is fresh, while being nostalgic in all the right ways. It reinvigorates a movie franchise that is so important to so many people, and I cannot wait to see what they come out with next!

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  #29  
Old December 21st, 2015, 08:06 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, this is just conjecture with no reliable source, but I think it roughly plays out like this:

The Republic is the established legitimate government of a few systems, officially separate from the Resistance.

The First Order is the remnant of the Empire & whatever allies they can muster.

The Resistance is a military group that on paper is independent of the Republic, fights against the First Order, but receives support from the Republic on the down-low. Kinda like a freedom fighter force with covert backing/unofficial assistance from the foreign government that can't be seen interfering in affairs that aren't their business. And the First Order object to this because... reasons? I'm still a little confused myself.
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  #30  
Old December 21st, 2015, 09:16 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

I think what is generally missed about Rey is that she had a few "Matrix" moments. When she is introspective and the camera is super close in, it is like she is taping in the force.

It is not unthinkable that one of the powers of the light side is tapping into the knowledge of Jedi that came before.


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  #31  
Old December 21st, 2015, 09:30 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

That would make sense, and would help iron out the only thing I didn't really like about Rey as a character, which was that she was too good at everything. She learns how to fly a ship instantly, somehow knows about its inner workings too, learns the force incredibly quickly, and can also communicate with all the other non-English characters, somehow able to understand wookiee.

If the force helps her with such things, that would make a lot of sense.

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  #32  
Old December 21st, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

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Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
That would make sense, and would help iron out the only thing I didn't really like about Rey as a character, which was that she was too good at everything. She learns how to fly a ship instantly, somehow knows about its inner workings too, learns the force incredibly quickly, and can also communicate with all the other non-English characters, somehow able to understand wookiee.

If the force helps her with such things, that would make a lot of sense.

~TAF
While they don't openly address her skills, most make sense. She's worked with mechanical things most of her life as a scavenger. Odds are she had quite a lot of time to study the downed ships on Jakku while she was ripping parts off of them.

As a scavenger, we saw her in a settlement/outpost with a wide variety of aliens, so her grasp of tongues makes sense (though where she learned Wookiee I have no idea).

So far as the Force goes, I suspect that she possesses quite a lot of potential that she's not in control of, leading to outbursts of power when she's in danger/angry/afraid. Thus, she resists and later beats Kylo Ren, can fly the Falcon quite well, etc. It's a bit like if Anakin Skywalker had never gotten his training as a Jedi, but still was incredibly powerful with the Force (yada-yada, midi-chlorians, yada-yada).
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  #33  
Old December 22nd, 2015, 04:13 AM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

After some more time to cool down, I'm quite satisfied with the film!

I still didn't really like some of the humor, which reminded me of "teeny humor" found on the disney channel (like Finn's "in your face" moment with Phasma). I still find Snoke, Hux and Phasma not quite what I'd like to see as villains.

I will really miss Han. He was amazing in this movie, especially the many hilarious moments with Chewie. It's sad to see him go, the old Han was a blast!

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  #34  
Old December 22nd, 2015, 09:34 AM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
I think what is generally missed about Rey is that she had a few "Matrix" moments. When she is introspective and the camera is super close in, it is like she is taping in the force.

It is not unthinkable that one of the powers of the light side is tapping into the knowledge of Jedi that came before.
I understood at least one of those moments to be referencing when the barkeeper character (sorry, not fluent with the names) told her to close her eyes and try to feel the force. So, yeah, tapping into the force is exactly what she was doing.

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  #35  
Old December 23rd, 2015, 02:34 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

I am going to express my thoughts through each character, and any movie specifics will be brought up through the scenes they were in. Overall it was a 9/10 for me, and I don't think it was a remake. I think they simply cherry picked what they thought would work in order to bring the series back. I am okay with that, its just a tip of the hat is all, and the rest was fresh and new in my opinion. I am still unsure where it ranks on my personal star wars list though, I need to see it a few more times!

Light Side
Rey-
Daisey Ridley killed it, loved her acting and loved her character. With that my biggest gripe has to be her ability to use the force so quickly, mainly a jedi mind trick without having to wave her hand. I don't think we have seen that ... ever. But this also leads me to believe that perhaps her powers are so incredibly strong because she has previous training, and when Kylo went AWOL Luke hid her, as a child, on Jakku and mind wiped her in order to keep her safe. And the old man who had the map piece was there pulling an Obi Wan for Luke, keeping an eye on her. And those memories started to come back when she touched the lightsaber. The force finally awakened inside her when Kylo tried to read her mind, his force probe tore down part of the mind wipe and let all her power come back. I am putting 50/50 to her being Lukes kid but she is powerful nonetheless, and if the force has been dormant for so long then no wonder it's making her so powerful so quickly.My last thought is what is that staff of hers, it's not just a staff!

Finn-
Again, Boega knocked it out of the park! His humor, while "black man" humor as some have said comes with the actor. Additionally it works for me, he's an enslaved kid who thinks he knows best. He's gonna have some wise cracks and things to say, just like baby vader. With that said he is NOT a jedi, and his role in future movies will be interesting. I think it's gonna be really hard to be ship shape after a lightsaber wound all the down the spine. However he did have a big presence in the war room, and I could see him becoming more of a war mind and commander in the resistance. I do think he needs to square off with Phamsa to settle the score however.

Po-
Good character who will be great, but he wasn't around enough for me to really grow an attachment. But since BB8 is his droid, I am sure we will grow quite fond of him as well. I wonder if Po will make a move on Rey too, causing a rift between him and Finn.

BB8-
All I have to say about this character is I a big fiery thumbs up.

Maz Katana-
Great new secondary character, but where the frick did she get Anakins lightsaber? I hope she comes back. Her kingdom is destroyed and she has to go back to pirating, it would be nice to learn some more, and maybe she will run into Rey who has now "touched the lightsaber"

Han-
Harrison Ford did a great job. I really disliked the scene with the squid monsters. I liked his chewie banter, but didn't fall in love with it. His death was telegraphed, but I don't think you could kill him off and not upset people!

Chewie-
The big furball delivered and it was unfortunate his shot on Kylo wasn't a head shot. I really enjoyed how they added a little more depth and layers to his character for this movie, especially now that he is going to be tagging along with Rey for awhile. I think he might leave the group at the end of 8 though, once he is at peace with Hans death.

Leia-
Meh ... she played the mommy role and that was about it. I hope to see more from Carrie Fisher, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did not. I did think her acting was a little weak. Also it was odd that she embraced Rey so quickly when they landed. Something to that? I woulda thought she would seek comfort in chewie.

Luke-
....

Dark Side
Kylo -
Kylo was a lot different than I thought. But I LOVED IT. He is Vaders grandchild who has been seduced to the dark side. He knows its wrong, he knows the light, but he wants the dark. But it is hard when, just like Anakin, your mentor and peers continually find flaws in your decisions. But in the end I think he was faced with his choice and he chose the dark, killing Han. And now that he has done so, and been wounded in combat, I believe he is going to become a little more like vader and a little less like Ben in this next movie.

Hux-
Good character, very dicatatory, I want more from him in the next movie.

Snoke-
Who is Snoke is the big question. I can't wait to get the story of 8, Luke training Rey and Snoke training Kylo ... the light and the dark have awakened.

Phasma-
Had potential but fell below the bar. I hope she gets more screen time in 8, and I think she will. 8 will probably focus on training the force users and the action will be left to the soldiers, then there will be a square off in the end.

Starkiller Base-
I am okay with this ... but they couldn't done better. My problem is they blew up 5 planets and we had no attachment to them. Additionally, besides Jakku, this movie did a bad job of introducing planets. No names, no systems, etc. In every other movie they really make it a point to let the viewer know where they are traveling and what system they are in. I didn't get that in this movie and I think that took away from the imagination a little.

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  #36  
Old December 23rd, 2015, 03:27 PM
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Re: SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

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Originally Posted by chief View Post

Leia-
Meh ... she played the mommy role and that was about it. I hope to see more from Carrie Fisher, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did not. I did think her acting was a little weak. Also it was odd that she embraced Rey so quickly when they landed. Something to that? I woulda thought she would seek comfort in chewie.

Hux-
Good character, very dicatatory, I want more from him in the next movie.

Starkiller Base-
I am okay with this ... but they couldn't done better. My problem is they blew up 5 planets and we had no attachment to them. Additionally, besides Jakku, this movie did a bad job of introducing planets. No names, no systems, etc. In every other movie they really make it a point to let the viewer know where they are traveling and what system they are in. I didn't get that in this movie and I think that took away from the imagination a little.
Leia - I also thought Carrie could have been better. It sounded like she was gritting her teeth the whole time. I then read that she had some facework done, so I guess that's where that comes from. Kind of sad though, her dynamic character is stiffened a bit by that stiff face. As far as her hugging Rey, I think she quickly saw that Han was gone and was comforting Rey. She seemed to be ready to lose Han any time, even if it was terribly hard for her to let him go. But I got the feeling she was always prepared to have seen him for the last time.

Hux - felt too young. Tarkin fulfilled a similar role amazingly. I felt like Hux almost had to try too hard. Like he was trying to seem powerful by shouting, whereas someone like Tarkin had no real need to shout, he was simply sovereign.

Starkiller base - I had the same feeling about the planets. I wondered which ones they would be, but in the end it didn't matter. I figured the New Republic would have been based around Coruscant and I thought that was the system they attacked, but probably not.

The targets could have been Dagobah, Hoth, Tatooine, Bespin and Endor and they would have effectively destroyed every planet in the original series

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