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  #1  
Old September 20th, 2009, 11:02 PM
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Turtle and Anti-Turtle Unit Lists

Now that I know which units are good for turtling I am adding a list of the ones that are considered better turtle units in a list.

Turtle Units

Utgar
Deathwalker 9000
Deathwalker 8000
Zettian Guards

Jandar
Raelin RotV
Raelin SotM
4th Mass. Line
Omnicron Snipers

Ullar
Syvarris
Aubrien Archers
Warriors of Ashra
Elf wizards work better together -
Elmiroon
Ulginesh
Jordawn
Chardris
Arkmer
Kyntela Gwyn
Acolarh
Morsbane

Einar
10th Regiment of Foot
Tagawa Samurai Archers
Kaemon Awa
Gurei-Oni
Crixus
Roman Legonaires
Roman Archers

Vydar
Major Q9
Major Q10
Laglor
Krav Maga Agents
Nakita Agents
Blastatrons

Aquilla
Migol Ironwill
Axegrinders

Also, I am adding an Anti-Turtle List so you know which figures to draft against a Turtle.

Anti-Turtle Units

Utgar
Cyprien Esenwein
Sonya Esenwein
Minions
Mimring
Deathwalker 9000
Isamu
Drow Chainfighter
Fen Hydra
Phantom Knights

Jandar
Sir Gilbert
Knights of Weston
Nilfheim

Ullar
Atlaga
Protectors of Ullar
Charos
Jotun
Syvarris
Venoc Vipers
Elite Onyx Vipers
Elf wizards work better together -
Elmiroon
Ulginesh
Jordawn
Chardris
Arkmer
Kyntela Gwyn
Acolarh
Morsbane

Einar
Izumi Samurai
Einar Imperium
Zelrig
Ninjas of the Northern Wind
Gurei-Oni

Vydar
Braxas
Major Q9
Major Q10
Krav Maga Agents
Nakita Agents
Laglor

Aquilla
Sujoah
Migol Ironwill
Axegrinders
Wyrern

Books of Heroscape

I'm open to suggestions for either list!
I seem to be behin on some of the DND things... update soon.

Helm in hand,
fist in the air,
the knight screams of victory.

Last edited by Knight of Feylund; March 24th, 2011 at 12:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old September 20th, 2009, 11:10 PM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

Raelin and swarms of Deathreavers is the epitome of turtleship. Little to no offensive power.
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Old September 20th, 2009, 11:15 PM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

Turtle =

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Old September 21st, 2009, 11:46 AM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

Kato and his party can be very good turtlers.


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  #5  
Old September 21st, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

One thing to keep in mind is to build maps that put turtling at a disadvantage. If you want to call it a "strategy", it sure is a lame one that should be discouraged.
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Old September 21st, 2009, 11:53 AM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

I don't think Rats really turtle at all - they pretty much just charge you. They happen to have 4 defense at 10 points per figure and can move without OM's - I don't think that's turtling, though.

The 4th Mass are the turtle kings. If you don't have something with Range > 6 on your team, they can just find the closest high ground, get there, and then wait. Q9 is a turtle too, especially when he has his winged mistress with him. Those 2 can just sit there all day on a perch and hang out. At least he's usually attacking, though. The Mass can just wait until you get into range and then annihilate you.

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Old September 21st, 2009, 12:39 PM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

Turtling... boring.... losing... consciousness...


Every good army and strategy needs to include both offense and defense. An example of this type that works well, is fun to play, and encourages BOTH offensive movement AND Turtling are the Elf Wizards. To be effective, they need to find strategic terrain, move there "en masse", and then throw burning things at the enemy. It's kind of a quasi-turtling army that moves and then hunkers down as a unit when the enemy is in range...

Other than that quasi-turtling army, I'm against playing a turtling game. Both players should be offense oriented, while obviously not ignoring defensive advantages along the way.

By the way, a fun counter to turtling armies that don't want to move, and are just waiting for you to come to them are the Vipers! Grab 4+ squads of Venoc Vipers (with Mittens), and then rush the turtling army on turn 3 (if you go last), and then you'll hopefully frenzy PLUS win initiative for the next round. Their movement of 9 typically allows them to reach the average turtled army in one turn and attack... and a subsequent frenzy (or 2) can wreak further havoc... and then if timed right with the 20-sider on your side, you can rinse and repeat with initiative the following turn.

They're a cheap offensive "cruise missile" that can really shake up a turtled army and force them to starting moving.

OR, just go the brute force route and fly in a few squads of Minions backed by Atlaga for a speed boost...

OR, you can place some valuable glyphs in the middle of the map to encourage armies to venture forth into the battlefield...

Meh, there's lots of options to overcome and discourage turtling. The biggest one, though, might just be to taunt your opponent and call him a "wussy-boy"...

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Old September 21st, 2009, 03:44 PM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

I don't see turtling as a bad thing at all, or even boring. Camping however, yeah, that's boring.

What's the difference? Camping is when a unit plays the "come get me" approach, the 4th Mass, DED, Syvarris, Q9, and the Krav are classic units for this strategy. You sit there on top of a hill and refuse to move, making your enemy break their teeth trying to take you down. It's a very effective strategy, but without a game changing unit like a Braxas or Zelrig in your army it's no fun to fight.

Turtling I see as having a defense heavy army, either one that combines huge defense rolls or extremely high life. A Deathwalker army backed by Raelin might be an example, or the Gladiator hero's, even the Knights are examples of turtle units. Note those units also have high attack, and in some cases are even melee based, thus bringing the fight to the enemy.

Camping units usually combine long range with either high defense or some defensive special (Krav, Nakita's). They are best employed on height with difficult terrain around them to discourage or delay counterattacks. The Camping player will refuse to budge from advantageous ground, and will usually win battles unless something goes dramatically wrong for them.

Turtle units usually have high defense or high life, often both, making them tough to take down. These units also tend to have a decent attack or multiple activations giving them a better than even chance of taking down the enemy first. A turtle player might seek advantageous ground as we all do, but can also bring the attack to you.

By contrast there are also the swarm armies and armies that use high attack values. They have the advantage of winning spectacularly when things go well, but blowing up when things go poorly. I think Elves might be a good example of the latter. A bunch of fully boosted elf wizards can bring the pain, but losing just a few key players can ruin their game. Deathwalkers also fall into the category. DW8K might run the board on some squadies, but a whiffed defense roll leaves him vulnerable to a lone Arrow Grut.
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Old September 21st, 2009, 03:58 PM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

Yarish, I think that when most people use the term "Turtling" they mean it in the way you use the term "Camping." At least that is what I take it to mean.


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Old September 21st, 2009, 04:50 PM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
Yarish, I think that when most people use the term "Turtling" they mean it in the way you use the term "Camping." At least that is what I take it to mean.
Agreed. When I think of Turtling in HS I think of a turtle who tucks himself away in his shell where he is nice and safe and refuses to come out; not a slow heavily armored army.

And, with this concept in mind, I must agree with nyys and rouby44- it is lame way to play. If you want to play, then play.

Anyhow, SW8K has some good suggestions. Thankfully, no one in my gaming group employs this "strategy" (for lack of a better word).
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Old September 21st, 2009, 05:31 PM
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Knight of Feylund Knight of Feylund is offline
 
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

When playing turtle I think you should move around but at a slow rate where you keep your army together and wait for victems to come in your reach and then you attack.

Another way to play is to move to higher ground and wait for your opponent to have to catch you.

But still my question remains, What are good Turtle Strategy Units?
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Old September 21st, 2009, 05:32 PM
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Re: Turtle Strategy Units

The Q9/Raelin/Krav pod.


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