The Book of Negative Man

[MrNobody]

Honestly just don't think this is a design/character many people are invested in. Which is fine, not complaining at all, just might mean not as many eyes on it.

[Karat]

I just forgot to come back and reorient and vote here. Tag me next time if it's been 24hrs and I haven't voted yet

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Honestly just don't think this is a design/character many people are invested in. Which is fine, not complaining at all, just might mean not as many eyes on it.

Maybe that's something that applies across the board. I guess Mister Freeze votes were fairly active. This might just be a result of the number of non-household names in the system at the moment.

[MrNobody]

@Arch-vile thanks for signing up here! Can I ask you to note any points where he’s particularly fun/frustrating? This is a way more finicky unit than my others and I want to make sure he has a good feel.

[Arch-vile]

Will do! He looks pretty wacky. Anything special you want for the armies?

[MrNobody]

Doom Patrol obviously, but their lack of OM efficiency atm makes them not quite optimal. That last Kang army was really effective, so maybe try something with him?

[Arch-vile]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Negative Man & Negative Spirit

Army Test
Map: A Couple Puddles
Units: Negative Man, Negative Spirit, Daredevil 1, Elektra (515) VS Ryu, Chun-Li, Mortal Kombat Scorpion (505)

Spoiler Alert!

Ryu moves up. Larry spawns the Negative Spirit who gives Ryu a wound. Ryu attacks everyone: 2 wounds on Daredevil, Larry blocks, Elektra blocks. Elektra puts 2 wounds on Ryu. Ryu attacks: Daredevil blocks, Larry takes a wound. Daredevil disengages Ryu (taking a wound) then KOs him. Larry recalls the spirit.

Chun-Li moves up. Elektra deals her 2 wounds. Chun-Li deals 2 wounds to Elektra, then whiffs against Daredevil. Elektra deals a wound to Chun-Li then finishes her off with Assassin’s Mark.

Scorpion moves up. Elektra is blocked. Scorpion fails his chain roll. Elektra deals 2 wounds. Scorpion deals 2 wounds. Elektra deals 1 wound.

Scorpion kills Elektra. Larry spawns the Negative Spirit, who is blocked. Scorpion moves forward and fails his chain roll. Negative Spirit finishes Scorpion off.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Daredevil (3 wounds) & Negative Man (1 wound) + Spirit win.

Felt balanced as Negative Spirit doesn’t do too much and Larry is pretty fragile. The Fighters just sucked this game.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: A Couple Puddles
Units: Negative Man, Negative Spirit, Changeling, Kid Flash (475) VS Batman 1, Robin Jason, Nightwing 2 (470)

Spoiler Alert!

Nightwing & Robin move up. Negative Spirit moves out with Kid Flash following & the spirit wounds Nightwing. Nightwing attacks Kid Flash who dodges, then Robin puts 2 wounds on Kid Flash. Kid Flash returns the favor. Nightwing engages Negative Man and KOs him, thus finishing off the spirit as well. Robin is blocked by Kid Flash.

Nightwing is blocked, but Robin finishes off Kid Flash. Changeling puts 2 wounds on Nightwing. Robin is blocked, then Nightwing wounds Changeling. Changeling takes out Nightwing then Robin.

Changeling & Batman fight, but Batman wins.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman w/2 wounds wins.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: A Couple Puddles
Units: Negative Man, Negative Spirit, Changeling, Kid Flash (475) VS Batman 1, Robin Jason, Nightwing 2 (470)

Spoiler Alert!

Running this game again to try and protect Larry more. Negative Spirit & Kid Flash move out. Nightwing & Robin do the same. Spirit wounds Nightwing while Kid Flash engages Robin. Nightwing & Robin only manage a wound on Kid Flash. Spirit flies through Robin to inflict a wound. Robin is blocked, Nightwing puts 2 wounds on Larry via range. The Spirit is recalled.

Spirit wounds Nightwing. Nightwing takes out Larry and thus the Spirit too. Changeling takes out Nightwing. Batman moves up while Kid Flash continues to dodge Robin.

Batman wounds Changeling. Basically the Vigilantes kick butt.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman w/0 wounds & Robin w/2 wounds win.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I feel like Negative Spirit just doesn’t do much. He can get autowounds on people, but it’s tricky to roll for more than 1 figure and event then it’s not a great use of an order marker. He doesn’t tie people down since he can’t roll for engagement attacks, and Negative Man is so fragile that the enemy just ignores the Spirit and rushes Negative Man in the start zone. His range 2 attack of 4 is useful, but again it’s nothing special. I don’t own the Doom Patrol yet (or Kang, thanks for the suggestions though lol) so I didn’t try that synergy but that synergy is not very strong at the moment.

Honestly in spite of my seeming negativity, Negative Man/Spirit bring something unique to the game and they were very fun to play against as it required a unique strategy. I think giving Negative Spirit the ability to make leaving engagement attacks would go a long way for his usefulness. I don’t mind him being a lower cost figure as he really is quite unique and I think he’ll work very well with the increased OM efficiency that Chief should provide.

[IAmBatman]

Fwiw I'd be cool seeing Negative Spirit being able to take swipes.

Curious - is it thematic for Negative Spirit to be mind controlled?

[MrNobody]

Thanks Archie! I’m honestly not feeling quite right about this guy yet. After playing Johnny Thunder and Thunderbolt (almost done, I promise!), I just felt like this pair feels a lot worse in comparison. I’m honestly just thinking of ditching the “can’t be destroyed” clause and just giving the Spirit a ton of life.

I honestly don’t know if the Spirit can be mind controlled. Maybe in the classics, but I’m betting nowadays they’d give an excuse about negative energy or his special bandages somehow blocking mind control. Maybe there’s a DP/Mento fight somewhere I can’t remember that has an answer for you.

[IAmBatman]

Just wondering because if not might make sense for the Spirit to be an Event Hero. Wouldn't technically end all mind control, but it'd block any I can think of in a practical sense.

[Arch-vile]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Thanks Archie! I’m honestly not feeling quite right about this guy yet. After playing Johnny Thunder and Thunderbolt (almost done, I promise!), I just felt like this pair feels a lot worse in comparison. I’m honestly just thinking of ditching the “can’t be destroyed” clause and just giving the Spirit a ton of life.

I think just letting the spirit give disengagement strikes and/or increasing attack power somehow (increased attack or better odds for the autowound or something) would make him work. His only problem IMO is not being worth an OM. But that sounds like an interesting direction too if you're not happy with the current direction.

What about letting the Spirit be destroyed but also letting Negative Man bring him back infinitely? So the opponent can destroy the Spirit for temporary relief but he always comes back. Not sure if that's thematic or if it even solves the main problem here, but the idea just came to me.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

I think just letting the spirit give disengagement strikes and/or increasing attack power somehow (increased attack or better odds for the autowound or something) would make him work. His only problem IMO is not being worth an OM. But that sounds like an interesting direction too if you're not happy with the current direction.

What about letting the Spirit be destroyed but also letting Negative Man bring him back infinitely? So the opponent can destroy the Spirit for temporary relief but he always comes back. Not sure if that's thematic or if it even solves the main problem here, but the idea just came to me.

Yeah that’s how I’m thinking of doing it, just like JT&T. Having played them, it just feels much smoother than what I have going on here.