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  #7213  
Old March 26th, 2021, 06:22 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Scytale already eloquently spoke through the issues here. While I like the idea of a Havech Eradicator hero, AT-43 has already been steadily growing harder to find; I would need to see evidence of high availability to be comfortable with considering a sculpt from it. A repainted Havech Eradicator is another matter entirely that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with (and it would need to be discussed internally as well).

Flamethrower does not work as currently worded--I think that it'd be better served to follow the precedent of figures like Rhogar Dragonspine and the Vulcanmechs with a Special Attack that targets things in a straight line. That would clear up the ambiguity and also remove the need for Cybernetic Aiming, which feels out of place thematically. Similarly, depending on the final mechanics, Plasma Burn could easily be incorporated into the Special Attack; I think that there's a promising design here, but it could use revision and ultimately feels too cluttered right now.

to review the Havech Igniter.
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  #7214  
Old April 11th, 2021, 07:34 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I would like to nominate my custom Wulfing Hunters for SoV review.
- - - - - - -

WULFING HUNTERS


The figures used are #001 and #014 from D&D ICEWIND DALE: RIME OF THE FROSTMAIDEN.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!


CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
  • ARKTOS: HUNTER ATTACK ENHANCEMENT
    As Hunters the Wulfing Hunters can can benefit from Arktos' Hunter Attack Enhancement.

Synergy Benefits Offered
  • ARKTOS: HUNTER HERO STRATEGIC BONDING
    As a Hunter Hero you can activate Arktos using Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding.
  • Dünd: HUNTER HERO STRATEGIC BONDING
    As a Hunter Hero you can activate Dünd using Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding.
  • Feral Troll: HUNTER HERO STRATEGIC BONDING
    As a Hunter Hero you can activate Feral Troll using Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding.
  • Master of the Hunt: HUNTER HERO STRATEGIC BONDING
    As a Hunter Hero you can activate Master of the Hunt using Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding.
  • Shadow Hound: HUNTER HERO STRATEGIC BONDING
    As a Hunter Hero you can activate Shadow Hound using Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding.
  • Van Nessing: HUNTER HERO STRATEGIC BONDING
    As a Hunter Hero you can activate Van Nessing using Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding.
  • Himmelskralle: HUNTER HERO STRATEGIC BONDING
    As a Hunter Hero you can activate Himmelskralle using Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding.


Back with a tested and revised version of the Wulfing Hunters. Plays a little cleaner than the last version and doesn't have problems that the last version had (namely that self bonding could allow you to move and attack with the same 2 figures back to back). Now we have all the elements of the original design present:

1. No Hitzones when they aren't engaged.

2. Functions as a Psuedo 4 man unless you would like to take a turn with an Unengaged Hunter Hero. The unengaged requirement should be intuitive because being unengaged will be central to the Wulfing's playstyle. They want to hunt, kill and then vanish (by being unengaged). It is also a safety with Himmelskralle to discourage you from being too greedy in your plays lest she get isolated, I know some people are worried about that synergy but I still advocate that the best hunters for the Wulfing synergy are the ranged ones (Master of the Hunt, Van Nessing, Arktos, Dund).

3. I think our theme is communicated well here, they are Hunters that can move spooky fast and appear out of nowhere ready to strike down their prey and then move onto the next hunt. Hunter Hero bonding comes into play in this same theme, if you look at how wolves function in real life their packs have different Wolves for different jobs much like how these guys will have access to different Hunter Heroes for different strategies but they can still function on their own as a psuedo 4 man pack of hunters.

I think this is a lot cleaner than my previous submission, everyone that has played with or against them sees them as a fun addition.
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  #7215  
Old April 11th, 2021, 08:28 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Just at a quick glance, both powers encouraging units to be unengaged and then striking seems like a pretty cool theme.


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  #7216  
Old April 12th, 2021, 01:09 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Why are these historical humans wearing masks given the race of “Wulfing”?

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  #7217  
Old April 12th, 2021, 01:40 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Why are these historical humans wearing masks given the race of “Wulfing”?
These arent humans, nothing in the bio suggests that. In fact if I didnt tell anyone that the name Wulfing belong to a historical tribe on earth then I dont think many would have really picked up on that to be honest. My card text clearly specifies them as Wulfing from Feylund.

I liked the name and took it for inspiration of this humanoid species. I do not wish to have a historical unit that limits further creativity if I use their faction again because they would be humans from earth, we dont have a ton of special abilities or powers as humans lol.

Last edited by Shiftrex; April 12th, 2021 at 02:58 AM.
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  #7218  
Old April 12th, 2021, 09:21 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Ok. I find that mildly troubling. It’s an opportunity missed, when we could have had an actual historical unit. Instead we have one with a foot in both worlds, from a fantasy planet. That doesn’t make sense to me.

But if you want to make them not human, then why not give them a not human name?

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  #7219  
Old April 12th, 2021, 12:12 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I dont have a desire to make historical units that are humans. Most legends and myths do have some historical contexts. I used some inspiration here that again... who actually knew that before I mentioned it? The short answer is that I dont want to.

Already had an entertaining episode of what species and planet would be acceptable. This shouldnt cause any issues and should be fine.

On a side note, if they were boring historical units from earth, how are they stealthy enough to not be targeted by magic, missiles and soulburg technology? That's theme breaking for me there, their level of stealth is fantastical and not human. I understand that you see an opportunity but I dont share that thought in making a human unit from history... they couldnt do what they do if they were simply human.
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  #7220  
Old April 12th, 2021, 12:20 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Then change the name. The minis certainly *could* be fantasy. So make them fantasy, and stop forcing them to have a foot in both worlds.

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  #7221  
Old April 12th, 2021, 12:27 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I like the name... nothing is forcing them to have a foot in both worlds. A lot of things have names inspired from history, I'd argue that most of our myths and fantasies do. Would you have thought they had a foot in both worlds if I didn't tell you that I looked up an obscure name from history? I think I can do down the list in heroscape and find you a lot of names that should be "troubling" in terms of theme and history that are much more well known.

Krav Maga Agents - Krav Maga is a well known CQC style that is widely used by a lot of government agencies for its brutality. Why is there no mention or ties to it at all? They have an ability inspired by the Matrix instead, stealth dodge, which has nothing to do with their name.

That's an example, I'm sure I can produce quite a few within Heroscape without much effort. Are you saying that you are going to downvote me because I did research and used something from history to inspire my work of fantasy?

EDIT: Wulfing as a name (because the tribe name is different, Ylfing) just means related to wolves. It's a norse word, part of my heritage. Norse concepts and words are used for a lot of things, including a lot of the mythology currently on feylund like dwarves, elves, giants and so forth. I really don't think the name should be a stumbling block now of all times when "human" naming conventions exist on all units to a degree.

Last edited by Shiftrex; April 12th, 2021 at 01:12 PM.
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  #7222  
Old April 12th, 2021, 01:43 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Krav Maga Agents - Krav Maga is a well known CQC style that is widely used by a lot of government agencies for its brutality. Why is there no mention or ties to it at all? They have an ability inspired by the Matrix instead, stealth dodge, which has nothing to do with their name.
The movie you're looking for is Equilibrium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
EDIT: Wulfing as a name (because the tribe name is different, Ylfing) just means related to wolves. It's a norse word, part of my heritage. Norse concepts and words are used for a lot of things, including a lot of the mythology currently on feylund like dwarves, elves, giants and so forth. I really don't think the name should be a stumbling block now of all times when "human" naming conventions exist on all units to a degree.
My advice would be to create a similar name that is inspired, then, and not use the actual real-world word.


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  #7223  
Old April 12th, 2021, 01:53 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I don't plan to make any changes until I get SoV votes to approve or deny this.

These guys have been around for about 4 months now on discord and in my thread, the name has never once been an issue. I still don't see it as an issue, I've changed just about everything on the card to suit feedback but I don't think I should have to give up my name as well lol
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  #7224  
Old April 12th, 2021, 02:22 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The name "Wulfing" doesn't bother me at all. Heroscape has a long history of reusing terms however it likes ("Valkyrie"?), and that's fine. And I know nothing about Wulfings, and these guys aren't necessarily human under the bone masks. That said, I wouldn't have a problem with them as Humans from Earth either. Silent Stalker isn't weird enough that is has to be magic (and, well, we already have leaping monks).

I'm against making everything in Heroscape same-y. Where that happens most is giving everything bonding or leadership giving-turns abilities. That said, it's well-used because it's very effective. Easy-to-use direct synergy pulls dusty figures off the shelf and gives them new life. I've been generally against other units, such as Daishi Tokanto and Clayton Pierce, but have been pleasantly surprised when plastic hits the table.

So a general warning: if this units feels like "we exist to give Hunter Heroes a bonding squad," then I'll end up downvoting it. I see more to it with Theoryscaping, though; I see some neat potential for clever play to maximize their potential or counter them as an opponent. If they plays like expect, I'm intrigued.

This is a sharp, clean design. Hunter Hero Strategic Bonding could possibly use a different name due to the non-standard "unengaged" condition, but it's not wrong and could be discussed later. I also have some reservations about the price as a four-figure 3/3 squad with 6 move. I'm happy to give them a try, though.

to review Wulfing Hunters
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