[Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) - Editing

[Tornado]

[Skinderella]

Bumping this because it's been a while, but how are people feeling about Vlad? What's the consensus on what exactly we want him to do?

I'm still keen on making him a marker based figure and then giving him a suitable fear based effect tied to that. Or taking him in this route that Astro wrote up:

Originally Posted by Astroking112

THAT IS NO MAN
Any time Vlad destroys an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, move each adjacent opponent's figure up to 2 spaces, if possible. Figures moved by That Is No Man take any leaving engagement attacks that apply, and can only move if they do not end their movement engaged to Vlad III.

This could make him a unique anti-squad figure that isn't multi attacks or AoE attacks. As well as being a light support by freeing some figures trapped from being engaged.

[Captain Stupendous]

I'm feeling like he lost a lot of his identity once we decided not to make him a warlord. His previous powerset depended a lot on his capacity for bonding to really be viable in anything but a very casual setting.

While I'd be open to a marker based ability, I haven't seen one that really jumped out at me as anything AMAZING (although maybe something great has been proposed along these lines and I'm not remembering, did you have a favorite marker based ability Skinderella?).

I actually quite like the idea of giving him a forced movement ability. Here's my own variation on the concept that I think avoids some of the issues noted above:

VLAD III
Species = Human
Unique Hero
Class = Lord
Personality = Merciless
SIZE = medium 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE 5 / BASIC
RANGE 1 / BASIC
ATTACK 4 / BASIC
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC

??? POINTS

MORTAL BLOW
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

DISPLAY OF CRUELTY
After taking a turn with Vlad III, if Vlad destroyed at least one figure, you may move each enemy squad figure within 2 clear sight spaces up to 1 space, if possible. Any figures moved with Overwhelming Terror must be able to end this move unengaged, and take any leaving engagement attacks that apply.

I think that this direction works much better as a standalone hero than the previous attack aura (also worth noting that we already have quite a few aura powers in the set).

[Astroking112]

I like the idea of incorporating some kind of forced movement mechanic into the design, and it pairs nicely with the defense bypass. That said, I wouldn't shy away from a greater redesign (probably impacting Mortal Blow and the figure's identity as a whole) if necessary here.

The draft in Post #219 looks solid to me, albeit with a couple of suggestions:

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

VLAD III
Species = Human
Unique Hero
Class = Lord
Personality = Merciless
SIZE = medium 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 4
DEFENSE 4

MORTAL IMPALING BLOW
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

DISPLAY OF CRUELTY TERRIFYING DISPLAY
After taking a turn with Vlad III, if Vlad destroyed at least one figure, you may move each engaged enemy squad figure within 2 clear sight spaces up to 1 space, if possible. Any figures moved with Overwhelming Terror must be able to end this move unengaged and take any leaving engagement attacks that apply.

I still like Impaling Blow more than Mortal Blow here. Even though it's not as reusable, it would feel a bit off to not refer to some kind of impalement on Vlad the Impaler, and it paints a pretty great theme for the skipping of defense dice.

I think that "Display of Cruelty" doesn't come across as being perfectly thematic--ideally, I think that it should see figures running away from the enemy, which is difficult to manage unless they're engaged. I also don't care to propagate the Kozuke "must be able to" wording into an introductory starter set, and anything that we do to lean away from that would be a positive in my eyes.

Lord feels like a solid synergistic class that shouldn't define his price, unlike Warlord was. If skeleton synergy is problematic in testing, then it would be easy enough to change the class, I think.

[Skinderella]

I liked the idea of using markers on this guy but there is a lot of potential for other figures to use them in the future, and I'm really liking what you've both got down here.

I'm not super into either of the names for the first power, but I prefer Impaling Blow for the same reasons Astro mentioned. To me, the name *something* Blow implies an effect that would occur after the attack, not before, but I'm not against this name either as I can't think of anything better and it gets the theme across.

Terrifying Display is great, captures the theme, and is simplistic enough in this set. Forcing engaged figures to move will help limit the power a bit, but we'll have to keep an eye on the power on lava maps and against squads that are used in large numbers.

I don't think Vlad will cause any issues in the Lord class. With his current power level I think it's good that he doesn't bond. As a Warlord it would hurt the Romans' low movement but as a standalone figure he is quite strong on paper. I'd love to keep Lord if we can purely because it's basically the vampire class, which is a fun nod to Dracula.

[Captain Stupendous]

Looking back at the last couple of pages, it seems like we had actually decided on "Impalement 13" as the name for the defense reduction power, which I prefer to either Mortal Blow or Impaling Blow. I just copied over Mortal Blow from the first page, which looks like it hadn't yet been updated with the new Impalement 13 name.

For the forced movement power, I don't mind the name Terrifying Display, but if we use it I think his personality would also have to be changed to Terrifying, which is a bit of a shame because I slightly prefer the thematic implications of either Merciless or Sadistic.

I also don't really like the change to making it only work on engaged figures, as I think it actually becomes less thematic. Forcing a figure to run away from an engagement with another one of your figures makes it seem thematically like the enemy figure is terrified of the figure its engaged with, not Vlad.

Because of the short range of 2 and the requirement that they cant end their turn engaged, I really don't think its necessary to require that any figures moved must be engaged before moving. Since they can't move closer to Vlad, any affected figures will end up either moving away from him, or circling around him, which also feels thematic enough to me.

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Skinderella

As a Warlord it would hurt the Romans' low movement

I don't understand what you mean here.

Originally Posted by Skinderella

I'd love to keep Lord if we can purely because it's basically the vampire class, which is a fun nod to Dracula.

I do like the nod, but I also like Romans so I would have no problems with Warlord, either. I do find it funny we have both a Lord and Lady (Durnipia Nephda*) for the Skeletons of Annellintia (but I like them, too ).

*Still Durnipia in the OP, btw.

[Captain Stupendous]

Once the OP is updated, I believe Nephda's class and personality will be changing to Inscrutable Protector.

[Skinderella]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

Looking back at the last couple of pages, it seems like we had actually decided on "Impalement 13" as the name for the defense reduction power, which I prefer to either Mortal Blow or Impaling Blow. I just copied over Mortal Blow from the first page, which looks like it hadn't yet been updated with the new Impalement 13 name.

For the forced movement power, I don't mind the name Terrifying Display, but if we use it I think his personality would also have to be changed to Terrifying, which is a bit of a shame because I slightly prefer the thematic implications of either Merciless or Sadistic.

I also don't really like the change to making it only work on engaged figures, as I think it actually becomes less thematic. Forcing a figure to run away from an engagement with another one of your figures makes it seem thematically like the enemy figure is terrified of the figure its engaged with, not Vlad.

Because of the short range of 2 and the requirement that they cant end their turn engaged, I really don't think its necessary to require that any figures moved must be engaged before moving. Since they can't move closer to Vlad, any affected figures will end up either moving away from him, or circling around him, which also feels thematic enough to me.

Forgot about Impalement 13, but I like that.

Would his personality need changing necessarily? Could change it to Merciless/Sadistic Display if that would be an issue.

We can leave the engagement requirement for now and see what it's like in testing. If it needs toning down to engaged only, we can do that then I think unless anyone objects.

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

I don't understand what you mean here.

I do like the nod, but I also like Romans so I would have no problems with Warlord, either. I do find it funny we have both a Lord and Lady (Durnipia Nephda*) for the Skeletons of Annellintia (but I like them, too ).

*Still Durnipia in the OP, btw.

Sorry I worded it poorly, but I meant it in relation to Terrifying Display. Him forcing figures to move away from him could mean they also move away from Romans and out of range because they're a bit slower. I've only played Romans a couple of times though so I could be overthinking it.

Nephda is a Protector now so no skeleton synergy there, and we can take him back to Warlord if that's the majorities preference.

I'll make a her post in her thread for an OP update!

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

Once the OP is updated, I believe Nephda's class and personality will be changing to Inscrutable Protector.

Oh. Well, that's kinda weird synergy anyway.

Originally Posted by Skinderella

Sorry I worded it poorly, but I meant it in relation to Terrifying Display. Him forcing figures to move away from him could mean they also move away from Romans and out of range because they're a bit slower. I've only played Romans a couple of times though so I could be overthinking it.

I see now. First, Romans are almost never played without Marcus. Second, since you have some control over where they move, I doubt it would be an issue very often.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Skinderella

I don't think Vlad will cause any issues in the Lord class. With his current power level I think it's good that he doesn't bond. As a Warlord it would hurt the Romans' low movement but as a standalone figure he is quite strong on paper. I'd love to keep Lord if we can purely because it's basically the vampire class, which is a fun nod to Dracula.

Agreed; I think that Lord is reasonable (and appreciate the nod to Dracula), but straight bonding on a figure that's able to force LEAs is probably too strong.

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

For the forced movement power, I don't mind the name Terrifying Display, but if we use it I think his personality would also have to be changed to Terrifying, which is a bit of a shame because I slightly prefer the thematic implications of either Merciless or Sadistic.

I also don't really like the change to making it only work on engaged figures, as I think it actually becomes less thematic. Forcing a figure to run away from an engagement with another one of your figures makes it seem thematically like the enemy figure is terrified of the figure its engaged with, not Vlad.

Because of the short range of 2 and the requirement that they cant end their turn engaged, I really don't think its necessary to require that any figures moved must be engaged before moving. Since they can't move closer to Vlad, any affected figures will end up either moving away from him, or circling around him, which also feels thematic enough to me.

Those are interesting points. I don't particularly mind Terrifying Display on a non-Terrifying figure, but I can see how it can come across as disconcerting. I also don't mind Vlad as Terrifying, but I agree that Merciless is probably the best fit thematically. "Sadistic Display" or some other prefix could also work for renaming the power, albeit I think that Terrifying best conveys the intended theme of fear.

I don't really agree with the change to figures being engaged being less thematic. In practice it works as the opponent taking a LEA from the engaged figure, but Vlad is still the one triggering the power after having killed something. I think that it still comes across well.

I don't love a terrified figure circling around Vlad, but it's probably a necessary gimmick. Lava dunking isn't a huge concern, but I do think that any forced movement for opposing figures is decently better than the form that essentially forces a disengage. This opens the power up to Engagement Strikes, tying down figures with stuff like Dienekes or another defender like Gladiatrons or Knights, which is pretty important.

[Captain Stupendous]

@flameslayer93 @Alexandros @Zetsubo @Skinderella How are we all feeling about this design?

VLAD III
Species = Human
Unique Hero
Class = Lord
Personality = Merciless
SIZE = medium 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE 5 / BASIC
RANGE 1 / BASIC
ATTACK 4 / BASIC
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC

??? POINTS

IMPALEMENT 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

DISPLAY OF CRUELTY
After taking a turn with Vlad III, if Vlad destroyed at least one figure, you may move each enemy squad figure within 2 clear sight spaces up to 1 space, if possible. Any figures moved with Display of Cruelty must be able to end this move unengaged, and take any leaving engagement attacks that apply.

I think the specific issues that we need to determine a consensus on are:

• Decide on power name for "Display of Cruelty"
• Nail down specific mechanics for Display of Cruelty. I personally prefer the version quoted above, but I know @Astroking112 preferred to limit the power to only working on engaged figures. I think that's less thematic, unless it was limited to figures engaged *with Vlad*, but I'd be curious to hear what the rest of the pod thinks.
• Decide what his personality will be. I think the best options are probably Merciless, Terrifying, or Sadistic, but whatever we end up naming the Display of Cruelty power will probably determine the best direction to go for personality wise.