The Book of Cheshire (II)

[Lord Pyre]

I'm completely lost here by the way. Only reason I haven't been commenting.

What are we stuck on?

[tcglkn]

Karat wants it to affect Event Heroes and a few of us are concerned about the power level of that. I do understand his frustration as it was in the design the whole time like the size of Mister Incredible, but this is more of a power level thing.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Karat wants it to affect Event Heroes and a few of us are concerned about the power level of that. I do understand his frustration as it was in the design the whole time like the size of Mister Incredible, but this is more of a power level thing.

Lets poll it out. Winner takes it.

Why should it affect Event heroes? In comics does she poison someone who might qualify as an Event Hero for us? Being a 180 point figure doesn't seem like she should be able give the opponent's event hero a 50% change of taking a wound four times a round. That's huge.

[Karat]

This is just one where I'm not passing something I'm not content with and clearly it's not happening right now, so I'm officially putting this on hold.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

To be fair, I think you may be making it harder than it needs to be.

Things to consider:
• How often do Event Heroes get played?
• How many are there? ~35
• How many Event Heroes are either Android, Construct, or Undead thus don't matter? ~6/35 (7 if you throw in Mxyzptlk)
• ~20/35 Event Heroes are over 500 points(most well over). She's 190.
• Viper's Poisoned Strike is limited to Unique.
• ~20 Androids + ~10 Constructs + ~25 Undead + ~29 Event Heroes that are not one of those 3.
• Even with all the immunities, she's great against Over 90% of the library, and it will only grow as we expand even further.

I just feel like it's not really worth the frustration it's being made into. She's a cool design that is plenty draftable, fun, and I'd imagine rated at least a B+.

Pick an option that people have suggested, personally I still like Mr. Nobody's suggestion best:

It means every time she rolls all skulls against an Event Hero, they take a wound(even after the marker is elsewhere). It's not one and done. If they are Unique, they get the marker. It's pretty straight forward and plenty usable and deadly both against Uniques, Event, and beyond.

I really like that take.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by Karat

This is just one where I'm not passing something I'm not content with and clearly it's not happening right now, so I'm officially putting this on hold.

I just want to know what the issue is. Can you communicate it clearly so I can analyze?

[Karat]

I don't think I can and that's like over half of the issue.

[Karat]

After pondering on this I think my biggest thing here, even though I couldn't exactly articulate it, was ensuring that she is treading different Poison ground than the original and just Uniques is probably just that, the same thing portrayed differently. Squads get messy and Event can be debilitating. Like is what the poisons do different? Sure. I guess my biggest quandary here is making it so that this design doesn't overshadow the original and I just don't feel we're there yet.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, well 170 vs. 185. The other Cheshire is a lot more D20 based, whereas this one is all about combat dice. The other Cheshire probably has more potential damage output in a single turn, whereas this one is more of a slowburn, but probably has a higher damage floor. The other Cheshire has the defensive power to get into melee and wants to attack there, but is probably a quick strike and then quick fall type of figure. This Cheshire has more staying power and wants to move in and out of combat, getting her hit, and then dodging out of the way. This Cheshire also has multiple attack, so maybe better with squads.

They feel pretty different to me in general. I wouldn't say impact on Event Heroes is a deciding factor one way or the other (nor, thematically, do I think it should be).

[Arch-vile]

Synergies are a huge difference too. Assassin synergies and Mercenary synergies means she's playing in completely different armies.

[Karat]

I agree on the Event part more less now that I've had time to really let it simmer. I just don't necessarily agree with the all in on Uniques and we are getting text heavy too which doesn't help.

[tcglkn]

I'd be happy to do a space check if you right up a version of the power you are happy with. Then we can see if we need to find space on the card or not.