HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles-building a dungeon army

[Killometer]

Parties in 4e DnD are built around four members filling four general Roles, each of which has a specific niche. For personal entertainment and information I divided all the unique heroes into the four roles. I included all the unique heroes, even ones like Deathwalker 9000 (since I remember the good-old days when you could still play things like an Awakened Iron Golem enchanted with the ability to use Fireball as a Spell-Like Ability /rant). I also noted each figures points to help with quick army building.After I finished I decided to post this list, in case anyone else had any interest in running scenarios around a "classic" DnD party other than the one provided in the MS3. I wrote up a brief description of each role to clarify them for people without any experience with 4e.

As always with my lists, this is now a community resource, and if anyone sees a way to better it for the community please feel free to share your ideas (especially if a unit seems out of place-some were quite difficult to nail down).

Defender-Excellent raw survivability through a combination of strong defense and/or high life. Moderate damage output, usually focused on melee combat, often accompanied by the ability to force an enemy to bring the fight to them. MS3 example-Tandros Kreel

Striker-Relatively low life and defense augmented by an ability to avoid damage another way, either by fighting from range or a special ability. High damage output, either through multiple attacks or special abilities that increase damage in specific situations. Often have very high mobility. MS3 example-Darrak Ambershard

Leader-Support allies through numerical boosts or healing. Moderate survivability and damage output. MS3 example-Ana Karithon

Controller-Have the ability to affect several targets with a single attack or control or affect an opponents actions. Low survivability and base damage output. MS3 example-Erevan Sunshadow

The key to a strong party is diversity. Make sure your units support one another. For best effect try to have a solid, lock-down, front-line hero, a mobile, ranged multi-attack hero, a hero that boosts your other hero's survivability, and a hero that can blast several enemies at once or limit your opponent's ability to attack your army.

*, *, * or * after a unit's name denotes that they are also listed under Defender, Striker, Leader or Controller.

* after a unit's points denotes that a large portion of their value is derived from their ability to improve squads.


Defender
Abomination - 320
Brunak* - 110
Charos - 210
Crixus - 90
Eltahale* - 140
Fen Hydra* - 120
Frost Giant of Morh* - 140
Gurei-Oni - 100
Incredible Hulk - 370
Iron Golem - 100
Jotun - 225
Major Q9* - 180
Major X17 - 100
Migol Ironwill - 110
Mogrimm Forgehammer- 120
Ogre Pulverizer - 100
Retiarius - 90
Sgt. Drake RotV* - 110
Sgt. Drake SotM* - 170
Shurrak - 160
Siege - 120
Sir Denrick - 100
Sir Dupuis - 150
Sir Hawthorne - 90
Tandros Kreel - 120
Tor-Kul-Na - 220
Torin** - 120
Thanos - 360
Valguard - 110
Werewolf Lord* - 140

Striker
Agent Carr - 100
Agent Skahen - 120
Alastair MacDirk - 110
Arkmer - 50
Brandis Skyhunter - 90
Brave Arrow - 50
Braxas - 210
Brunak* - 110
Chardris - 90
Cyprien Esenwein - 150
Darrak Ambershard - 60
Deadeye Dan - 60
Deathwalker 7000* - 100
Deathwalker 8000* - 130
Eldgrim - 30
Eltahale* - 140
Estivara - 80
Evar Scarcarver - 110
Feral Troll - 90
Fen Hydra* - 120
Frost Giant of Morh* - 140
Grimnak - 120
Guilty McCreech - 30
Ice Troll Berserker - 85
Iron Man - 220
Isamu - 10
Iskra without Rechets - 50
Kaemon Awa - 120
Krug - 120
Kumiko - 80
Major Q10 - 150
Major Q9* - 180
Marcu - 20
Master of the Hunt - 140
Master Woo - 140
Me-Burq-Sa - 50
Mika Connour - 110
Moriko -110
Nerak - 50
Nilfheim - 185
Ogre Warhulk - 150
Othkurik - 140
Otonashi - 10
Samuel Brown - 60
Sgt. Drake RotV* - 110
Sgt. Drake SotM* - 170
Sharwin Wildborn - 110
Shiori - 60
Silver Surfer - 320
Sonya Esenwein - 45
Spider Man - 160
Su-Bak-Na - 160
Sujoah - 185
Syvarris - 100
Theracus - 40
Torin** - 120
Tornak - 100
Venom - 150
Warden 816* - 90
Wo-Sa-Ga - 135
Zelrig* - 185
Zetacron - 60

Leader
Acolarh - 110
Ana Karithon - 100
Atlaga - 90
Captain America - 220
Concan - 80
Emirroon - 80
Empress Kiova - 90*
Finn - 80
Hatamoto Taro - 130*
Kato Katsuro - 200*
Kelda - 80
Khosumet - 75*
Kurrok the Elementalist - 120
Kyntela Gwyn - 20
Laglor - 110
Marcus Decimus Gallus - 100*
Ornak - 100*
Parmenio - 90*
Raelin RotV - 80
Raelin SotM - 120
Rhogar Dragonspine - 110
Saylind - 80
Sir Gilbert - 105
Sonlen - 160
Spartacus - 200
Taelord - 180
Thorgrim - 80
Torin** - 120
Ulginesh - 150
Venoc Warlord - 120*
Warden 816* - 90

Controller
Deathwalker 7000* - 100
Deathwalker 8000* - 130
Deathwalker 9000 - 140
Doctor Doom - 245
Dund - 110
Erevan Sunshadow - 80
Greater Ice Elemental - 130
Heirloom - 80
Iskra with Rechets - 100
James Murphy - 75
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan - 60
Jorhdawn - 100
Kee-Mo-Shi - 130
Mimring - 150
Mind Flayer Mastermind - 100
Moltenclaw - 170
Morsbane - 100
Ne-Gok-Sa - 90
Pelloth - 90
Red Skull - 190
Runa - 120
Sudema - 140
Werewolf Lord* - 140
Wyvern - 100
Zelrig* - 185

[Toad Rocket]

Good post and nice break down of how to build a party. Though from my limited experience I would like to add a few things that really makes a party thrive.

Healer - In an all hero campaign the ability to heal your units has so far proven to be pretty important. Unless you got a decent stock of health potions, or are doing a very short campaign having a healer in your group is very valuable

Multi-attacker - You will be facing multiple foes, most likely squads. Having the ability to strike more than once per OM is also very important.

Special attacker - by passes certain defenses. Makes certain battles much easier.

I will also say that you want all your heroes to have adequate life and half decent defense. Adequate life (minimum 3, but 4+ much better) is very important because of the numerous autowound abilities that would kill them too quickly. Multiple life also means that healing is effective on these units. Without enough life the unit will not get a chance to heal (via other unit or potion) thus negating that advantage you had.

[Killometer]

Originally Posted by Toad Rocket

Healer - having a healer in your group is very valuable

Originally Posted by Killometer

Leader-Support allies through...healing.

Originally Posted by Toad Rocket

Multi-attacker - You will be facing multiple foes, most likely squads. Having the ability to strike more than once per OM is also very important.

Originally Posted by Killometer

Striker-High damage output...through multiple attacks
Controller-Have the ability to affect several targets with a single attack

Originally Posted by Toad Rocket

Special attacker - by passes certain defenses. Makes certain battles much easier.

This is definitely an important consideration in HS, but it's not something that fits within a specific DnD role. Each role includes figures with Special Attacks, so they should be fairly easy to work into a party.

[Killz]

Awesome work! I would +rep, but I need to "spread some around".
But this helps in making custom campaigns a lot!

[Bogusoid]

Great thread, I like your thinking! Still, going by your list and omitting Utgar units, I find it very hard to form a 360-point, four-man party using figures that were not included in the D&D master set. I decided on 365 - that's no biggy though, at least not to me.

Anyway, here's my theoretical party:

Defender: Migol Ironwill
Striker: Agent Carr
Leader: Thorgrim
Controller: James Murphy

The only thing I don't like is how there are three humans, but I guess it's really no big deal. I wanted an elf but all the wizards rely on the other wizards being present, and Sonlen is too expensive. I must have Migol in my party, he is too cool.

Also, I find the concept of the Defender a devious one seeing as Tandros Kreel is the only figure with a taunt attack. What good is a tank who can't force the enemy to attack him?

This is just nit-picking, but I think it's strange that you call the third class "Leader". Very rarely do I see the healer as the leader; usually the tank is the leader of the group. I guess it's more figurative, especially sense there are pretty much no healers in Heroscape.

[SgtHulka]

Interesting.

I'd quibble with your list a bit...Strikers seem to be assassins. Phantom walkers/disengagers are obvious, but Darrak doesn't have that power. He does have the biggest attack value of the four heroes, though, which is what makes him a Striker. Also, Strikers, it seems, don't hog the Order Markers until it's time for them to strike. Your defender or controller seems to hog the order markers, with your leader cheerleading. Once it's time to strike (like Darrak gets in a flank with Tandros) suddenly you put all your order markers on the Striker.

Agent Skahen 120 I'd say is either a Leader or a Controller, not a Striker. She doesn't really have any personal mobility, but she can make tricky vydar agents (Carr/Dund) more mobile. She doesn't have a single big attack, like Darrak, but she can attack effectively from range, like Ereven. I'd probably say she's a leader in a Vydar party, or a controller in a non-Vydar party. Another way to look at it: if Emirron is a leader, than Skahen should be, too.

Arkmar 50 I'd say is a defender. Like all the elf wizards you need an all elf wizard party for him, but you can get his defense numbers pretty high and he has engagement strike. Granted, he has low life, but that's why you get what you pay for (as compared to the 120 point Tandros).

Chardris 90 I'd say is a controller. Again, he needs elf wizard support, but he's almost exactly like Ereven...a decent ranged special attack and not much else.

Kaeman Awa 120 I'd definitely say is a controller. A double special attack makes him one of the best controllers out there.

Guilty McCreech 30 I'd say is a controller, too.

Same goes for Syvarris 100. Basically, anyone with a double ranged attack I'd say is a controller, not a striker, even though they don't have a special attack. It seems like the controller is the party's ranged specialist. I agree with Toad Rocket that ideally the controller would have a special attack, but I still think Guilty and Syvarris are controllers.

EDIT: I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming off as too critical. I think this is a great thread/post by killometer.

[Killometer]

Originally Posted by Bogusoid

This is just nit-picking, but I think it's strange that you call the third class "Leader". Very rarely do I see the healer as the leader; usually the tank is the leader of the group. I guess it's more figurative, especially sense there are pretty much no healers in Heroscape.

That's the way they're broken down in 4e DnD, so that's how I organized them here. In my experience, who actually leads the party usually has more to do with out-of-game personalities than in-game titles.

Originally Posted by SgtHulka

Basically, anyone with a double ranged attack I'd say is a controller, not a striker, even though they don't have a special attack. It seems like the controller is the party's ranged specialist. I agree with Toad Rocket that ideally the controller would have a special attack, but I still think Guilty and Syvarris are controllers.

Controller was the hardest group to fit HS figs into. Because there aren't many (any?) figures that negatively modify an enemy unit, other than lowering life, there isn't anyone who fits into the Controller role. In 4e Controllers are the guys who stun or immobilize enemies, or do things like alter terrain to impede movement. Multiple ranged attacks, however, are a central part of the Striker role, thus the nearly complete inclusion of HS units with that ability in that role.

The Elves (along with Marvel) were amongst the hardest units to place, so I definitely appreciate any feedback on them. I'll look into them more when I have a chance to spend some time on it.

EDIT: I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming off as too critical. I think this is a great thread/post by killometer.

Like I said in my OP I'm always open to criticism and suggestions for improvement.

[Bogusoid]

I thought I had mentioned this here before, but I guess not. I tried playing a custom campaign scenario of mine, and I don't know if the monster was too tough (four heroes, 360 points against Su-Bak-Na and two squads of Nagrubs), or if it was the fact that I wasn't using the four D&D heroes. My biggest problem was how no one can taunt except Tandros Kreel.

What is a custom party using Classic heroes to do? If you want everyone to survive to the next map and a hard-hitting monster gets in the way, it's very hard to keep everyone alive when it can target the squishiest member of your party whenever it wants. What is your opinion on the importance of Combat Challenge, and have you experienced success without it?

[Killometer]

Originally Posted by Bogusoid

What is a custom party using Classic heroes to do? If you want everyone to survive to the next map and a hard-hitting monster gets in the way, it's very hard to keep everyone alive when it can target the squishiest member of your party whenever it wants. What is your opinion on the importance of Combat Challenge, and have you experienced success without it?

The key to a strong party is diversity. Make sure your units support one another. For best effect try to have a solid, lock-down, front-line hero, a mobile, ranged multi-attack hero, a hero that boosts your other heroes survivability, and a hero that can blast several enemies at once.

For defenders I'm a big fan of Sir Denrick (100) because A Coward's Reward is a strong deterrent to leaving engagement, and Valguard (110), because if your enemy does move away from him then he can get extra attack dice.

For striker I like Syvarris (100) best-he has excellent abilities and stats (Double Attack and a Range of 9), and fits thematically into BftU.

For leaders either Raelin (80) or Kelda (80) would be great additions to a party. I'm partial to Kelda for an all-hero army, because I find aura's to be too limiting. She can be difficult to work into OM management, but being able remove wounds from your heavy-hitters is worth the effort.

For controllers finding someone cheap with an area effect is difficult, but Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (60) performs well without taking up too much of a 360 point army.

Basically, as long as you have all, or even just most, of your bases covered, you shouldn't be too reliant on having a single power to find success.

[Killometer]

I've added the Greater Ice Elemental-he was very difficult to place. Initially I was debating between Defender, due to his potential for high survival thanks to Cold Healing, or Striker, due to his high damage output and ability to resist becoming engaged. Finally, though, I settled on Controller, because I realized that his real strength lies in controlling the battlefield. His double hex base in conjunction with Ice Cold and Ice Spikes allows him to boost the mobility of his allies (by creating large ice bridges-up to 4 hexes long) and hinder his enemies (by blocking up key choke points-Disengage doesn't help getting past this guy).

[Killometer]

I've added the Wyvern to the list as a Controller. At first glance his best use seems to be to grab a figure like Raelin or Sir Gilbert and move them away from the figs they are supposed to be supporting, which is a very Controller-like tactic.

[Killometer]

Brandis is an easy addition-he is a gimmee for a Striker. In DnD Rangers are Strikers, and Brandis' powers are perfect for the role: high damage potential against a specific target-set with the potential for multiple attacks.