Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations > C3G SuperScape > C3G Legacy
C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #18541  
Old May 9th, 2017, 10:55 AM
japes's Avatar
japes japes is offline
A Man of Taste
 
Join Date: August 3, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Austin (SW)
Posts: 28,810
Images: 51
japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
You really need it in Superiority Complex if you want to stick with it. You can't put two Secret Identities on the card, and it's not an effect that seems worth the card space. There's no big incentive (EDIT: synergy- or mechanic-wise, that is) to pair him with Spider-Man (Peter Parker) anyway, so having him count as Peter is an effect that 99% of the time doesn't matter, and 1% of the time says you can't have a fun cross-time team-up.

If we do get any Peter Parker synergy, my thinking is that it would likely be in the form of:
1) another Peter Parker with a transformation type effect
2) Mary Jane
Definitely wouldn't want Otto to be in on either one of those things.
I fully agree here. I'D drop the Peter Parker. Pretending to be Peter Parker doesn't make you Peter Parker. There is no reason gamewise or other for him to have two identities and even if so it wouldn't fit on the card the way you want it. Firestorm is legitimately two characters that's the reason his card if set up the way it is. When Enchantress Soul Swaps someone they don't get to add both secret identities...this is functionally the same thing.
The farthest I'm willing to go is the Firestorm route.
I'm really not understanding the resistance here so please explain. I can't find any mechanical reason for it. In C3G the secret ID is to prevent multiple versions of the same figure from "existing" simultaneously. For Firestorm (at least this version) neither Professor Stein nor Robby exist separate from the Firestorm personality simultaneous. From the little I know about superior spider-man, Peter Parker and Otto-Spidey do exist simultaneously at some point. Otto is in Parker's body but Peter Parker is not trapped there with Otto...it's Otto alone. So to mechanically force that here seems wrong and for no gain and possibly a detriments since any future Parker synergies should not be extended to this Spider-Man. I'm fairly certain I've seen a write-up somewhere where there was a Peter Parker synergy.


@Spidey'tilIDie , you are my source in depth of comic book knowledge so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.

Last edited by japes; May 9th, 2017 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Underlined for emphasis on the parts that were obviously overlooked.
Reply With Quote
  #18542  
Old May 9th, 2017, 11:00 AM
Ronin's Avatar
Ronin Ronin is online now
Symbiotic
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: USA - MA - Boston
Posts: 21,917
Images: 22
Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death!
Re: Public Design Post

In the source material, Otto has body-jacked Peter. Peter is still in there, but not in control. Strictly speaking, Superior Spidey shouldn't coexist with the original Amazing, but they do end up meeting via time travel. If we had more card real estate available and/or there were more of a mechanical incentive to do it, I'd be more on board with the dual identity. It seems pretty cuttable in this case, though.
Reply With Quote
  #18543  
Old May 9th, 2017, 11:02 AM
laughing matter's Avatar
laughing matter laughing matter is offline
Never Forgets
 
Join Date: July 28, 2013
Location: A shadow. In the night
Posts: 2,060
laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Public Design Post

Um... Obviously, you didn't read the story because Peter's mind was trapped in the body as well, Otto just had control. Peter regained control when Otto realized that his own arrogance let the goblin take control of the city, so he erased himself from the mind and gave Peter control again.

An example of how the dynamic works


life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
Reply With Quote
  #18544  
Old May 9th, 2017, 11:11 AM
japes's Avatar
japes japes is offline
A Man of Taste
 
Join Date: August 3, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Austin (SW)
Posts: 28,810
Images: 51
japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Um... Obviously, you didn't read the story because Peter's mind was trapped in the body as well, Otto just had control. Peter regained control when Otto realized that his own arrogance let the goblin take control of the city, so he erased himself from the mind and gave Peter control again.

An example of how the dynamic works

Um...I was very clear on that fact which is why I asked for information (EDIT: Please not the emphasis I added in my previous post). All you kept stating was what YOU were WILLING to do do and what YOU were NOT going to do. I asked for reasons. Had you provided this at the time then I'd have had a different opinion. I'm guessing the page before this Peter does something here other than just be a spectator. Firestorm's personalities argue with each other constantly and are aware that there are two in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
In the source material, Otto has body-jacked Peter. Peter is still in there, but not in control. Strictly speaking, Superior Spidey shouldn't coexist with the original Amazing, but they do end up meeting via time travel. If we had more card real estate available and/or there were more of a mechanical incentive to do it, I'd be more on board with the dual identity. It seems pretty cuttable in this case, though.
If it's time travel then that's a whole different ball game. a player can choose to ignore the Secret ID rule if they are doing a multi universes/time travel thing so that's not the same. I took your earlier statement as Peter came back in a different body simultaneous to Otto's Spider-Man existence.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
Reply With Quote
  #18545  
Old May 9th, 2017, 11:18 AM
laughing matter's Avatar
laughing matter laughing matter is offline
Never Forgets
 
Join Date: July 28, 2013
Location: A shadow. In the night
Posts: 2,060
laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
In the source material, Otto has body-jacked Peter. Peter is still in there, but not in control. Strictly speaking, Superior Spidey shouldn't coexist with the original Amazing, but they do end up meeting via time travel. If we had more card real estate available and/or there were more of a mechanical incentive to do it, I'd be more on board with the dual identity. It seems pretty cuttable in this case, though.
If I can't draft him with the original Doc Ock, then I don't see any reason why I should be able to draft him with the original Spider-Man either. Time Travel is a corner case and only one time at that. If it happened all of the time, like during a long-running series rather than during one event, then I'd be okay with just going with Otto's secret identity. As I see it, if you want to draft Superior Spider-Man with the original Spider-Man, then you can house rule it.

Besides, there's only one thematic example of them working together, Batman and Superman they are not. The way I see it, Spider-Verse can be a Scenario or a power on another card like Spider-UK, but the Superior Spider-Man only got to team up with Peter Parker once after his own series ended through time travel shenanigans.

It would be like if we designed Hydra Cap, and at some point during this run, he goes back in time once and teams up with regular Cap, so we accounted for that on his card. It's not typical to this version of the character, and only became an aspect of it after the series ended.

I'm not going to give this up. There's no reason that these two should work together, especially considering that it wasn't even Otto's choice that they work together. Besides, if you account for these Spider-Men working together in Spider-Verse, you'd have to account for it on Spider-Noir, Secret Agent Spider-Man (the one who worked with Wolverine and doesn't ave a catchy title), Spider-Knight, Spider-Punk, Spider-Cosmic, Spider-Cyborg, Black Suit Spider-Man, etc.

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
Reply With Quote
  #18546  
Old May 9th, 2017, 11:22 AM
laughing matter's Avatar
laughing matter laughing matter is offline
Never Forgets
 
Join Date: July 28, 2013
Location: A shadow. In the night
Posts: 2,060
laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Um... Obviously, you didn't read the story because Peter's mind was trapped in the body as well, Otto just had control. Peter regained control when Otto realized that his own arrogance let the goblin take control of the city, so he erased himself from the mind and gave Peter control again.

An example of how the dynamic works

Um...I was very clear on that fact which is why I asked for information (EDIT: Please not the emphasis I added in my previous post). All you kept stating was what YOU were WILLING to do do and what YOU were NOT going to do. I asked for reasons. Had you provided this at the time then I'd have had a different opinion. I'm guessing the page before this Peter does something here other than just be a spectator. Firestorm's personalities argue with each other constantly and are aware that there are two in there.
Peter doesn't have a lot of control, but he is able to stop Otto from doing some pretty heinous stuff if he exerts enough will power. He once stopped Otto from crushing a guy's head into a wall by making the punch miss.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
In the source material, Otto has body-jacked Peter. Peter is still in there, but not in control. Strictly speaking, Superior Spidey shouldn't coexist with the original Amazing, but they do end up meeting via time travel. If we had more card real estate available and/or there were more of a mechanical incentive to do it, I'd be more on board with the dual identity. It seems pretty cuttable in this case, though.
If it's time travel then that's a whole different ball game. a player can choose to ignore the Secret ID rule if they are doing a multi universes/time travel thing so that's not the same. I took your earlier statement as Peter came back in a different body simultaneous to Otto's Spider-Man existence.
Sorry, I really should have clarified better. I didn't mean to go on a rant, but that's exactly what I did.

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
Reply With Quote
  #18547  
Old May 9th, 2017, 11:42 AM
japes's Avatar
japes japes is offline
A Man of Taste
 
Join Date: August 3, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Austin (SW)
Posts: 28,810
Images: 51
japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post

Peter doesn't have a lot of control, but he is able to stop Otto from doing some pretty heinous stuff if he exerts enough will power. He once stopped Otto from crushing a guy's head into a wall by making the punch miss.
Now that could be interesting. If superiority complex was set up with the dual identity/multi attack with something that happens with you KO a figure to show this Parker fight you'd have a reason to have the dual personality.


Superiority Complex

Spider-Man has the secret identity of Peter Parker in addition to what is listed on this card. If Spider-Man rolls at least 2 skulls with his normal attack, Spider-man may attack again with his normal attack. Spider-Man may continue attacking with his normal attack until Spider-man rolls fewer than 3 skulls. Spider-Man cannot attack more than four times in a single turn. If Spider-Man destroy's a Unique hero his turn immediately ends.

Add that to Spider sense and websling and it seems to get what you want. It gets the dual id, the Otto going off putting a beat down on someone, and Peter trying to exert his will to keep Otto from going too far off the reservation.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
Reply With Quote
  #18548  
Old May 9th, 2017, 11:57 AM
laughing matter's Avatar
laughing matter laughing matter is offline
Never Forgets
 
Join Date: July 28, 2013
Location: A shadow. In the night
Posts: 2,060
laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post

Peter doesn't have a lot of control, but he is able to stop Otto from doing some pretty heinous stuff if he exerts enough will power. He once stopped Otto from crushing a guy's head into a wall by making the punch miss.
Now that could be interesting. If superiority complex was set up with the dual identity/multi attack with something that happens with you KO a figure to show this Parker fight you'd have a reason to have the dual personality.


Superiority Complex

Spider-Man has the secret identity of Peter Parker in addition to what is listed on this card. If Spider-Man rolls at least 2 skulls with his normal attack, Spider-man may attack again with his normal attack. Spider-Man may continue attacking with his normal attack until Spider-man rolls fewer than 3 skulls. Spider-Man cannot attack more than four times in a single turn. If Spider-Man destroy's a Unique hero his turn immediately ends.

Add that to Spider sense and websling and it seems to get what you want. It gets the dual id, the Otto going off putting a beat down on someone, and Peter trying to exert his will to keep Otto from going too far off the reservation.
I like this, although I'd go with 2 skulls both times for consistency. i.e.

SUPERIORITY COMPLEX
Spider-Man has the secret identity of Peter Parker in addition to what is listed on this card. If Spider-Man rolls at least 2 skulls with his normal attack, Spider-man may attack again with his normal attack. Spider-Man may continue attacking with his normal attack until Spider-man rolls fewer than 2 skulls. Spider-Man cannot attack more than four times in a single turn. If Spider-Man destroys a Unique hero his turn immediately ends.

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
Reply With Quote
  #18549  
Old May 9th, 2017, 12:01 PM
Ronin's Avatar
Ronin Ronin is online now
Symbiotic
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: USA - MA - Boston
Posts: 21,917
Images: 22
Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death!
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
If I can't draft him with the original Doc Ock, then I don't see any reason why I should be able to draft him with the original Spider-Man either. Time Travel is a corner case and only one time at that. If it happened all of the time, like during a long-running series rather than during one event, then I'd be okay with just going with Otto's secret identity. As I see it, if you want to draft Superior Spider-Man with the original Spider-Man, then you can house rule it.

Besides, there's only one thematic example of them working together, Batman and Superman they are not. The way I see it, Spider-Verse can be a Scenario or a power on another card like Spider-UK, but the Superior Spider-Man only got to team up with Peter Parker once after his own series ended through time travel shenanigans.

It would be like if we designed Hydra Cap, and at some point during this run, he goes back in time once and teams up with regular Cap, so we accounted for that on his card. It's not typical to this version of the character, and only became an aspect of it after the series ended.
That's not really analogous at all. I'd much sooner compare to say, the various Venoms. I've got a few write-ups for those and I can tell you none of them are getting any kind of "No multi-Venom!" clause even though there's only one Venom symbiote and they all hate each other. It's just not worth going out of the way to specifically bar a team-up with another figure that you've got no synergy with in the first place.

Quote:
I'm not going to give this up. There's no reason that these two should work together, especially considering that it wasn't even Otto's choice that they work together. Besides, if you account for these Spider-Men working together in Spider-Verse, you'd have to account for it on Spider-Noir, Secret Agent Spider-Man (the one who worked with Wolverine and doesn't ave a catchy title), Spider-Knight, Spider-Punk, Spider-Cosmic, Spider-Cyborg, Black Suit Spider-Man, etc.
You really don't. My point isn't "You can't make him exclusive with Peter because of Spider-Verse!" so much as it's "He's not really Peter and wouldn't strictly make sense counting as such. Why are we going out of the way on a busy card for an effect that does nothing?"

Last I'll say on this because I'm not deathly opposed and I didn't mean to kick off a big rant here. It just seems extraneous to me.
Reply With Quote
  #18550  
Old May 9th, 2017, 12:05 PM
laughing matter's Avatar
laughing matter laughing matter is offline
Never Forgets
 
Join Date: July 28, 2013
Location: A shadow. In the night
Posts: 2,060
laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Last I'll say on this because I'm not deathly opposed and I didn't mean to kick off a big rant here. It just seems extraneous to me.
Sorry, I didn't mean to rant myself, I just got a bit carried away. I'm planning on going with a version of Japes' suggestion now since it plays up the Parker influence well.

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
Reply With Quote
  #18551  
Old May 9th, 2017, 12:08 PM
japes's Avatar
japes japes is offline
A Man of Taste
 
Join Date: August 3, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Austin (SW)
Posts: 28,810
Images: 51
japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer japes is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post

Peter doesn't have a lot of control, but he is able to stop Otto from doing some pretty heinous stuff if he exerts enough will power. He once stopped Otto from crushing a guy's head into a wall by making the punch miss.
Now that could be interesting. If superiority complex was set up with the dual identity/multi attack with something that happens with you KO a figure to show this Parker fight you'd have a reason to have the dual personality.


Superiority Complex

Spider-Man has the secret identity of Peter Parker in addition to what is listed on this card. If Spider-Man rolls at least 2 skulls with his normal attack, Spider-man may attack again with his normal attack. Spider-Man may continue attacking with his normal attack until Spider-man rolls fewer than 3 skulls. Spider-Man cannot attack more than four times in a single turn. If Spider-Man destroy's a Unique hero his turn immediately ends.

Add that to Spider sense and websling and it seems to get what you want. It gets the dual id, the Otto going off putting a beat down on someone, and Peter trying to exert his will to keep Otto from going too far off the reservation.
I like this, although I'd go with 2 skulls both times for consistency. i.e.

SUPERIORITY COMPLEX
Spider-Man has the secret identity of Peter Parker in addition to what is listed on this card. If Spider-Man rolls at least 2 skulls with his normal attack, Spider-man may attack again with his normal attack. Spider-Man may continue attacking with his normal attack until Spider-man rolls fewer than 2 skulls. Spider-Man cannot attack more than four times in a single turn. If Spider-Man destroys a Unique hero his turn immediately ends.
the 2 was the intent...it was copied from Fist of Fury which was 3 with a base attack of 5. Going with a base attack of 4 here I dropped it to 2.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
He ends up coexisting with Peter during Spider-Verse anyway (and now he's back in a cloned body), plus if we ever got any "Peter Parker" synergy, he probably shouldn't be included.
I'd like more information here on the coexisting part. Was this just in the Spider Verse/time travel thing or was this in the same world?

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
Reply With Quote
  #18552  
Old May 9th, 2017, 12:21 PM
laughing matter's Avatar
laughing matter laughing matter is offline
Never Forgets
 
Join Date: July 28, 2013
Location: A shadow. In the night
Posts: 2,060
laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby! laughing matter rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Public Design Post

During the Spider-Verse event, Superior Spider-Man was pulled forward in time and participated in Spider-Verse, temporarily leading a team that's running parallel with Peter's team before unifying. He saved a copy of his brain on a robot and eventually imprinted it on a clone body. Like Superboy, it's got a little Octavius and a little Parker DNA in it

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations > C3G SuperScape > C3G Legacy
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Welcome to C3G! – Directory IAmBatman C3G Legacy 5439 July 29th, 2023 11:44 AM
Im new and need a public group BruteEinar Scapers Online 11 October 5th, 2012 04:48 PM
C3G Public Ballot Box IAmBatman C3G Legacy 1423 April 25th, 2010 10:14 PM
Public Apology Onacara Scapers Online 2 May 13th, 2008 05:19 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.