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  #2053  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 08:31 AM
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Rush Order

I worry that "Battle Rush" might end up being tactically used as "Battle Retreat". Don't think it's broken, just might end up being fairly unthematic in practice.

~Dysole, who thinks it'll depend on what Jakaw is fighting


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  #2054  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 08:43 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Jakaw -

6 base move and 3 bonus move once per round, makes him fast, like super fast. Luckily he is fairly papery.

throwing 8 dice (10 with height) seems like a lot. I know he can only wound on the second try, but it seems like a lot of dice for a 50 pointer. Amber shard is a good comparison who can also through lots of dice though.


Not a fan of fighter, maybe marauder?


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  #2055  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 09:09 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'm curious about his Battlerush Ability. In my experience playtesting Agent Fawcett, having free movement from figures is surprisingly versatile. She can be moved more frequently but that requires army building constraints and other limitations. 50 points is more of a commitment but he could actually be useful to take turns with on occasion and is probably a bit sturdier overall. You may have designed him the the other Raptorans in mind but I wonder if that power will be able to eke out more of an advantage you'd expect in whatever army you put him in. That's just something to keep an eye on and not to say it is actually an issue.

I can otherwise agree that the name could use a tweak. Battle Rush doesn't seem like a thematic fit since a versatile power like that is being used to gain tactical advantages and not necessarily move to engage the enemy.

[EDIT] Fighter seems off, too. I like Marauder or some other Rogue-like class.
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  #2056  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 09:16 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

In practice, Sir H, has Battle Rush been used to rush into battle? Or, rather, to retreat and/or reposition, depending on initiative and OM placement?

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  #2057  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 10:48 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I trust your testing, but it does look a bit stronger than 50 points to my first glance.

My biggest problem is the name, honestly. Most of the species on Marr have structure and hierarchy, including the raptorians. Without a new name and probably a new class, i'd vote no.

I do love the figure and the concept and most of the execution.

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  #2058  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 10:52 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I see you gave him a Height of 5. How much bigger is the mini than the existing Raptorians?

I wouldn't mind Reckless Battle Rush normally, but I don't like it for a Raptorian. While extra movement is kinda their thing, they already have it. Here is it extra movements in addition to extra movements. At some point it gets cumbersome to remember all of them. Have you considered Charging Assault? Not the same, but it fits the Reckless theme and focuses it on rushing into combat, which it seems like you're trying to do here, and it's simpler to keep in mind.

I like Second Strike. Not nearly as good as Double Attack, but certainly a good power.

I don't have the same dislike for "Fighter" that others seem to, though I would prefer Marauder.

Also, as superfrog noted, the Quorik Warwitch set a precedent for Raptorians not having names. I don't know if that's true for all Raptorians, though. I suppose that would be a question for the C3V ERB.
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  #2059  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 11:04 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Could you require the Battle Rush to end with him engaged? That would fit the "Reckless" part, as you don't know if you are going to Win init or not, and he could be a sitting duck.

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  #2060  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 11:55 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
I worry that "Battle Rush" might end up being tactically used as "Battle Retreat". Don't think it's broken, just might end up being fairly unthematic in practice.

~Dysole, who thinks it'll depend on what Jakaw is fighting
Duly noted. Though Iíd see that more as an end game sceanario than anything else. Heís much more valuable as a midmap threat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
Jakaw -

6 base move and 3 bonus move once per round, makes him fast, like super fast. Luckily he is fairly papery.

throwing 8 dice (10 with height) seems like a lot. I know he can only wound on the second try, but it seems like a lot of dice for a 50 pointer. Amber shard is a good comparison who can also through lots of dice though.

Not a fan of fighter, maybe marauder?
I definitely considered potential to throw a lot of dice, but thatís how he fills his points, usually gurentees 1 good kill and then goes down quick for his recklessness. Hense, the 4 life 3 defense which is pretty soft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
I'm curious about his Battlerush Ability. In my experience playtesting Agent Fawcett, having free movement from figures is surprisingly versatile. She can be moved more frequently but that requires army building constraints and other limitations. 50 points is more of a commitment but he could actually be useful to take turns with on occasion and is probably a bit sturdier overall. You may have designed him the the other Raptorans in mind but I wonder if that power will be able to eke out more of an advantage you'd expect in whatever army you put him in. That's just something to keep an eye on and not to say it is actually an issue.

I can otherwise agree that the name could use a tweak. Battle Rush doesn't seem like a thematic fit since a versatile power like that is being used to gain tactical advantages and not necessarily move to engage the enemy.

[EDIT] Fighter seems off, too. I like Marauder or some other Rogue-like class.
Iím not particularly married to the class, so Iím not opposed to the change is it is more fitting. Youíre the second to mention it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
In practice, Sir H, has Battle Rush been used to rush into battle? Or, rather, to retreat and/or reposition, depending on initiative and OM placement?
Definitely engage! I found he was amazing at simply being the threat level similar to the Rogues. He was able to develop slowly on his own and always be an option to rush into battle. So while early game heís not really reckless in his development, he definitely does midgame when you see OMís and send him in to engage where OMís have been placed. This is especially key with the Archers because Archers are so soft and valuable that if an opponent focuses on them he can cripple the armies ability to be effective with OMís his battle rush is great for engaging and getting in the way of units trying to take down the Archers. With that said, Archers have not been approved, so take that as you will. I also want to point out 2 very important points: 1) he must be UNENGAGED to activate the power. This is very difficult when you actual send him in, because then you DONT get to use it as he remains engaged and heís left on his own to die per his recklessness. Opponents who play to this and engage him when he does make his way in are able to negate the ability. BUT this is why heís a good threat, his recklessness canít be ignored and it allows your other units to back him up. Also he provides a little more staying power for potential Rogue shanks (again, havenít been approved though). 2) itís strategic NOT to use it. I found myself keeping him on Glyphs because of course I didnít want to come off it, and other times, I would rather hang back. So itís used a lot early game, but throughout the game it really is used as a RECKLESS engagement threat midgame when a Key figure or squad needs a stop. Granted Dysole has a point that endgame it could be used as more of a retreat, assuming of course he lasts that long. His first or second engagement could very well end him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
I trust your testing, but it does look a bit stronger than 50 points to my first glance.

My biggest problem is the name, honestly. Most of the species on Marr have structure and hierarchy, including the raptorians. Without a new name and probably a new class, i'd vote no.

I do love the figure and the concept and most of the execution.
The class thing seems like an issue, Marauder sounds like the go to change. As for the name, Iím not sold on that yet, but you do bring up a good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I see you gave him a Height of 5. How much bigger is the mini than the existing Raptorians?

I wouldn't mind Reckless Battle Rush normally, but I don't like it for a Raptorian. While extra movement is kinda their thing, they already have it. Here is it extra movements in addition to extra movements. At some point it gets cumbersome to remember all of them. Have you considered Charging Assault? Not the same, but it fits the Reckless theme and focuses it on rushing into combat, which it seems like you're trying to do here, and it's simpler to keep in mind.

I like Second Strike. Not nearly as good as Double Attack, but certainly a good power.

I don't have the same dislike for "Fighter" that others seem to, though I would prefer Marauder.

Also, as superfrog noted, the Quorik Warwitch set a precedent for Raptorians not having names. I don't know if that's true for all Raptorians, though. I suppose that would be a question for the C3V ERB.
Height 5 is more accurate, heís taller thank existing Beakfaces. In fact heís a bit jacked too, legs and arms are more muscular.

Hmmm. I see your point with the movement aspect of the design. I guess Iíve been trying to find something a little more unique than just a recycled charging assault which has been used a number of times already. I also see a problem with charging assault in coordination with his Second Swing...giving him more attack die would be crazy, though I guess the answer is to just lower his attack. Not sure, not sold on that yet, but definitely a good point.

This seems to be a theme here on the name change...could we get an official ďrulingĒ as it were, with the C3V ERB if his name should be more generic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Could you require the Battle Rush to end with him engaged? That would fit the "Reckless" part, as you don't know if you are going to Win init or not, and he could be a sitting duck.
I could, but I already have it requiring him to start unengaged. Both would be a little weird. Itís an option though and would force you to move him up using flocking early game and then recklessly move him In mid game. Would also, keep him from using it to retreat. Hmmm...no that I think about it...that just might be the right change to keep it thematically working.


Good thoughts everyone, I appreciate the quick feedback. Looking forward to more of your thoughts.
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  #2061  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 12:11 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
I also see a problem with charging assault in coordination with his Second Swing...giving him more attack die would be crazy, though I guess the answer is to just lower his attack. Not sure, not sold on that yet, but definitely a good point.
Charging Assault (on the Kozuke Samurai) does not give extra attack die, just extra movement.
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  #2062  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
I also see a problem with charging assault in coordination with his Second Swing...giving him more attack die would be crazy, though I guess the answer is to just lower his attack. Not sure, not sold on that yet, but definitely a good point.
Charging Assault (on the Kozuke Samurai) does not give extra attack die, just extra movement.
Oh sorry, I was thinking first assault. Hmmmm...Charging Assault is in line with his recklessness...though, Iím more inclined to make the change Kinseth offered in simply keeping the power but requiring him to end engaged rather than beginning unengaged. That fits better for what Iím going for.
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  #2063  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 12:31 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'm going to disagree with the dislikes of "Fighter" as a class. I like it and I think it goes well with this aspect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Height 5 is more accurate, heís taller thank existing Beakfaces. In fact heís a bit jacked too, legs and arms are more muscular.
Charging Assault would fit the Fighter class better as well. With the current power, I'm inclined to agree with others that the theme is off here and could at the very least use some changes to the name of the ability and perhaps class then too.
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  #2064  
Old February 2nd, 2018, 12:36 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I also want to say, in general, for any custom creators listening, that I actually appreciate reused abilities. Not every custom needs slightly tweaked abilities to make them unique. This is from someone that plays with a lot of people less familiar with the game than we are, having reused abilities helps those folks be familiar with it.
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