The Book of Sir Soundwave

[tcglkn]

I didn’t personally feel like a point bump was needed but I’m fine with it if you do.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

I didn’t personally feel like a point bump was needed but I’m fine with it if you do.

This^

He has high-end potential, but I think it'd be difficult to hit that most of the time.

[Yodaking]

Okay, so the intent is the figure can make a normal move using is base move number. Flash can move 12 spaces, while Prof. X can move 4. If that move qualifies for something like the road bonus, then that is applied. I'd just clarify it with a normal move or move normally language. If Bizarro is also written this way, he should be updated too then. The 'if possible' part is still a little confusing to me. Like if Jean Grey was targeted and is 6 spaces away from Prof. X, I know it won't be possible to move adjacent to Jean before I even move. So can I still move or do I lose that move? If I can still move 4 spaces, do I have to move towards Jean or can I now move in the opposite direction if I wanted to? Say I want to move Prof. X adjacent to Emma Frost who's not anywhere close to Jean and start building a Telepath hub. Powers like Drax's free move towards Thanos is clarified that you must end your move closer to Thanos. So maybe something like that that clarifies if you can't end your move adjacent, then you must end at least closer to that figure than when you started. That would clarify that you still get the move and that you at least can't use it to run away from the fight.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Again, this is lingo is from Bizarrro and I'm fairly sure quite a few other figure use some of the bits of it if not the exact same configuration. And Bizarro has been in C3G way longer than I have. So like, I'm not the one to answer any of these questions or talk to about wording updates.

My understanding is that the 'if possible' means you either move next to the person or you don't move at all since otherwise the wounding bit on Bizarro makes no sense. It is checking if it is possible to move next to the person, and if so you may then do so. The move is contingent on that requirement.

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

My understanding is that the 'if possible' means you either move next to the person or you don't move at all since otherwise the wounding bit on Bizarro makes no sense. It is checking if it is possible to move next to the person, and if so you may then do so. The move is contingent on that requirement.

That's how I played the power and think it's very clear.

[IAmBatman]

That is my understanding as well. Either move adjacent or not at all.

[Yodaking]

Okay, so you can't move at all then if you can't move adjacent. Now I know the intent. It's certainly not clear by reading it. That if possible clause should be at the beginning instead of the end. If it is possible to move normally and end adjacent to a figure that was not targeted, then you may move that figure adjacent. Or something along those lines. One thing is required to trigger the second thing. Not you can do the second thing first, then after doing that look and see if the first part is true. If Bizarro is written that way, it should be fixed. Not like we have a problem with rewriting card powers around here, so I'm not sure what all the push back is about.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

I don’t particularly see the need to change the wording, but I’m not super opposed to it or pushing back or whatnot. Just saying it’s a bit outside the scope of this thread. Like if we want to change Bizarro and whoever else uses similar wording that needs to happen in the text revision thread or something where more people have eyes on it and all the cards effected can be looked up and such.

[IAmBatman]

“move that figure adjacent, if possible, to a friendly figure”
“if possible, move that figure adjacent to a friendly figure”

These read exactly the same to me. If folks feel the second is clearer, I say go for it. Not seeing one as any clearer than the other, personally.

[Yodaking]

Okay, went and looked at Bizarro so I could propose a wording change and it's miles different than what is going on here.

VILLAINOUS DUTY
Immediately after a friendly figure within 3 spaces of Bizarro rolls defense dice against an enemy figure's normal attack, you must move Bizarro adjacent to the attacking figure, if possible. If you do, the attacking figure receives one wound. If Bizarro cannot move adjacent to the attacking figure, you must choose a figure adjacent to Bizarro, if possible, to receive one wound. When Bizarro uses Villainous Duty, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Bizarro has a move of 6 and flying, and the power requires Bizarro to be within 3 spaces of the figure that is rolling defense dice. Clearly he can move adjacent to them, barring some weird situation where the attacked figure is completely surrounded or someone like Blob is preventing his ability to move. Then it spells out exactly what happens in those rare cases where he can't move where directed, he deals 1W to an adjacent figure of your choice (ie. Blob). Don't have any concerns about that power at all, it's really clear.

Now that I understand the intent, this is how I would word your very different power.

CALLING IN THE CAVALRY
After an enemy figure takes a turn, you may choose 1 figure you control that has not been attacked or chosen by an enemy figure during this player turn and move that figure using its normal move. If you do, that figure must end its move adjacent to a friendly figure that was attacked or chosen by an enemy figure during this player turn.

That's really clear to me what's going on. You can move normally any figure you choose, only so long as that figure ends that move adjacent to someone who was targeted during that turn. Thanks for explaining the intent to me. I really thought you were trying to move any figure up from the start zone regardless if they could get their in one move or not.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Bizarro doesn't move adjacent to the friendly figure, he moves adjacent to the attacking figure. So it might not be super clear.

The conditions and targets and such are different. But the 'move next to whoever you're supposed to' part is the same between Sir Soundwave and Bizarro.

Interestingly, Heroic Duty says 'if it is able to' instead of 'if possible' so I guess I should word Soundwave like that if there's somehow a difference. Soundwave's Calvary power is basically giving a cleaner less interupty version of Heroic Duty to people. Even with the way Heroic Duty works the 3 spaces thing doesn't set parameters to how many spaces Superman can move in itself.

Actually, now that Heroic Duty people can use each other as beacons for their move (as in, He-Man can move next to someone if Superman was within 3 spaces of that person) it's even more similar to Soundwave's thing (just a thousand times messier since it happens in the middle of an attack ).

On the move normally part, I believe that would change how Soundwave works a bit? Bizarro says that 'move whoever' without setting a number of spaces means the person moves 'as if moving normally', not that they are moving normally. Superman III's Heroic Dutyish power specifically says that the person moves normally. So presumably there is currently a difference. Superman's thing is limited by his markers, so it's probably fine if it triggers 'when moving normally' type powers, but letting Soundwave do that might be an issue?

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Also since we're in all this wording discussion stuff I guess I'll just go ahead and call a vote to go to final editing?

Doesn't seem to be much need for more play testing, so might as well just dive into wording fixes in general and such.