Race for the presidency political discussion thread

[Drumline3469]

Originally Posted by InfinityMax

Gay marriage is an easy issue for me - who cares? Who gets hurt when two dudes decide to marry? Do you? Do I? Who's the victim?

You point to pedophilia as an equivalent perversion. In pedophilia, however, there is a clear victim who needs protecting. If there is no victim, are you not then saying that you have the right to decide what is moral for another person? If your justification for opposing gay marriage is that you don't want to turn a blind eye to sexual perversion, allow me to point out that homosexuality is already legal. You're not stopping the perversion by stopping the wedding. Not only are you closing the barn door after the horses have run, but you are telling another person that your morality trumps his. You tout the greatness of freedom while denying the freedom of another person. You would scream bloody murder if a Hindu told you that you couldn't eat beef, yet you are fine with turning your morality against someone else.

Plus, by stopping gay marriage, you are actually stopping them from formalizing a monogamous relationship. If you don't like gay people because they like to fool around, wouldn't you want them married, so they can legally commit to taking each other off the market?

I'm not gay. I'm an artist, so I've had gay friends, but I've never been attracted to a dude. This topic has absolutely no relevance for me personally - but to me it represents a failing of our much-touted love of freedom. You can't pick and choose who gets to be free. You either support freedom or you don't.

To me, it is condoning a belief. Yes, people are homosexual and will continue to be whether we allow gay marriage or not. In my head, by allowing it, we are condoning it. Showing that the government recognizes homosexuality as a somewhat rampant way of life and in the past, this governmental consent has lead to the moral demise of great nations... America is not impervious and we must hold our morals close.

[Fourshadow]

Originally Posted by Bannister

If you use your religious beliefs (or any other set of beliefs that you might have) to discriminate against a group of people, then you are a bigot.



Bannister

There are no 'bigots' in heaven--only those who loyally followed the word of God.

[Drumline3469]

Originally Posted by Roland

Your argument relies on one believing in a God though Drumline, I am looking at this solely from the states perspective on the matter.

With no God, any action can be easily tolerated as there is no universal belief... It is absurd to look at issues out of the context of the world we live in today. There are no anti-homosexual movements that are going that do not involve some form of God. Religion is where we get our basic morals. Who said it was wrong to kill? Who said it was wrong to steal? Survival of the fittest, correct? If you want to ignore God's set morality in some aspects, why not make laws to ignore it in all aspects?

[Bannister]

Originally Posted by Fourshadow

There are no 'bigots' in heaven--only those who loyally followed the word of God.

So what your saying is that Heaven is going to filled with people just like Pastor Fred Phelps?

Then thank your god I'm going to hell.

Bannister

[Raudulfr Shieldcrusher]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

I don't care if people call me a bigot. The Bible states that it's wrong. I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. If God says something, I like to listen.

That's my belief.

An excellent argument for the separation of church and state. You can believe whatever you want. Just don't expect the government to follow "your" religion.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Roland

As far as the state is concerned a marriage should be a union between two peoples that decide that they wish to take on the economic burden of living in America together.

As far as a church is concerned marriage should be between two people who love each other and wish to spend their lives together in happiness and raise a family.

What does the State get out of that arrangement? It already allows for Partnership entities formed as businesses. Also, why should the State confine the relationship to two people?

Should a church promote unions of persons who are not members of that church or do not adhere to its doctrine? Should it accept a family structure that violates the precepts of the religion?

~Aldin, probingly

[Roland]

The basic laws are based off the Ten Commandments sure, but in the crimes you list their is a victim, who is the victim of homosexual marriage? You? Me?

There isn't one.

[Drumline3469]

Originally Posted by Bannister

So what your saying is that Heaven is going to filled with people just like Pastor Fred Phelps?

Then thank your god I'm going to hell.

Bannister

Phelps is a Christian extremist who ENTIRELY perverts the word of God. His actions of hatred toward soldiers and their families are in NO WAY condoned in the Bible, or by 99% of Christians. Love the sinner, hate the sin. That's what we were always taught. Being gay is just as sinful as murder which is just as sinful as lying. They are all the same and we all are guilty of sinning. We have to love each other and support each other so that we can turn away from the sin and live the fulfilled life that God intended... I am not discriminating against anyone, yet I am an extremely religious person. Yeah, I don't condone what the homosexuals do, nor do I condemn them. They are still people and no less or more than I. But I still want to help them see that what they do is wrong. If they don't accept my help, then so be it, I tried. I'm not going to force by beliefs on anyone, but never will I hesitate to share them.

[Bannister]

Originally Posted by Drumline3469

Being gay is just as sinful as murder which is just as sinful as lying. They are all the same and we all are guilty of sinning. We have to love each other and support each other so that we can turn away from the sin and live the fulfilled life that God intended... I am not discriminating against anyone, yet I am an extremely religious person. Yeah, I don't condone what the homosexuals do, nor do I condemn them. They are still people and no less or more than I. But I still want to help them see that what they do is wrong. If they don't accept my help, then so be it, I tried. I'm not going to force by beliefs on anyone, but never will I hesitate to share them.

Then you are a bigot.

Bannister

[Drumline3469]

Originally Posted by Roland

The basic laws are based off the Ten Commandments sure, but in the crimes you list their is a victim, who is the victim of homosexual marriage? You? Me?

There isn't one.

Who is the victim in lust? Who is the victim in envy (as long as it doesn't end in robbing or murder)? There are several sins in which there is no victim outside of yourself.

[Gulp]

Originally Posted by Drumline3469

With no God, any action can be easily tolerated as there is no universal belief... It is absurd to look at issues out of the context of the world we live in today. There are no anti-homosexual movements that are going that do not involve some form of God. Religion is where we get our basic morals. Who said it was wrong to kill? Who said it was wrong to steal? Survival of the fittest, correct? If you want to ignore God's set morality in some aspects, why not make laws to ignore it in all aspects?

Sigh, if you stay in this thread long enough it just starts repeating itself.

Religion got its morality from people. People weren't nonchalantly killing and stealing from each other for fun. There would have been no cities.

If we got our morality from the Bible, this country would look like Saudi Arabia, not the good parts either.

[Drumline3469]

Originally Posted by Bannister

Then you are a bigot.

Bannister

As is everyone according to you, especially yourself... *sigh*