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C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.

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  #1609  
Old February 24th, 2019, 06:08 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

I know we normally bring over a power when doing a vII but what if you gave him Batwoman’s Bullet Proof Suit to represent his skin:

Quote:
BULLETPROOF SKIN
If a figure targets Luke Cage for an attack and rolls 2 (3?) or fewer skulls, you may ignore that attack.
Just tossing out ideas from a different angle.
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  #1610  
Old February 24th, 2019, 08:29 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post

A Juggernaut vII isn't out of the question, but if I were designing a Jugs II, I think the more intuitive direction would be to rep his good guy phases - make him a Protector so he can join Excalibur.

You could maybe make him a Repentant Protector so that he could still be Songbird-able, though.
Is there shared time with Songbird and Jugs? If so that sounds perfect. Repentant even fits.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #1611  
Old February 24th, 2019, 08:50 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

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Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post

A Juggernaut vII isn't out of the question, but if I were designing a Jugs II, I think the more intuitive direction would be to rep his good guy phases - make him a Protector so he can join Excalibur.

You could maybe make him a Repentant Protector so that he could still be Songbird-able, though.
Is there shared time with Songbird and Jugs? If so that sounds perfect. Repentant even fits.
Yeah, Juggernaut was on the Thunderbolts at the same time as Songbird.

Luke's teams are all mixed between 'handlers' who are all OG Thunderbolts that are reformed, and criminals that they're trying to redeem (or at least put to good use). Also Man-Thing is there because they figure out a way to use his connection to the Nexus of All Realities to teleport the team around.

The initial line-up looks like this:

Handlers: Luke, Songbird, MACH-V, Fixer
Criminals: Juggernaut, Ghost, Moonstone, Crossbones
Team Bus: Man-Thing

Over time, they pick up the following extra characters (all in the 'Criminals' category):
Troll, Satana, Mister Hyde, Boomerang, Centurius

Shocker and King Hyperion are also very briefly members, but neither lasts more than a single mission.

Eventually most of Luke's original team gets lost time-traveling and he has a new team forced on him by bureaucracy, made up of Norman Osborn's second Dark Avengers team. That one looks like this:

Handlers: Luke, Songbird, Skaar
Criminals: Ai Apaec, Trick Shot, Toxic Doxie, Ragnarok
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  #1612  
Old February 25th, 2019, 05:21 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by L0B5T3R View Post
I know we normally bring over a power when doing a vII but what if you gave him Batwoman’s Bullet Proof Suit to represent his skin:

Quote:
BULLETPROOF SKIN
If a figure targets Luke Cage for an attack and rolls 2 (3?) or fewer skulls, you may ignore that attack.
Just tossing out ideas from a different angle.

I'm in support of doing something like this. I've long felt like the first unbreakable skin power was a little underwhelming. If V2's leadership power is going to be less impactful than V1's full bonding, then improving his staying power doesn't seem like it should be a balancing issue.
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  #1613  
Old February 25th, 2019, 07:45 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

The 'Bulletproof' direction would make him sturdier against swarmy multi-attackers, but weaker against heavy-hitters. It's not a straight improvement.

I'm okay with deviating from Impenetrable Skin, but I do like the power and I'm not specifically looking to deviate from it.
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  #1614  
Old February 25th, 2019, 07:56 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Also, fwiw, my goal here isn't less impactful leadership so much as less direct leadership. I mainly just don't want him fully taking charge and being an OM hub because

a) that clashes with Songbird
b) it might make him a bit too much like the existing Luke Cage
c) it's a faction design goal for me to not do OM hubs for the Thunderbolts

So I think his role just needs to be a little different this time around. I think he should be setting up that big crazy 'natural Crime Fighters mixing with recruited Crime Fighters' build, and offering something conducive to that, but without going full-on bonding hub.
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  #1615  
Old February 25th, 2019, 08:11 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Would allowing a Quick Shot-style attack without a turn work for him?
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  #1616  
Old February 25th, 2019, 11:07 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

If he were a ranged figure, I think that would make sense for him, but I think if he just had like 'Crime Fighter Speed Shot', it could be tricky to pull off.

(And I wouldn't want him to let any of his recruits attack out of turn - that could be a troubling thing to have in the design space)
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  #1617  
Old February 26th, 2019, 11:20 AM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

I’m just imagining something where after revealing an OM on another Crime Fighter, he can sock someone in the face. Then, have a different small bonus when you reveal an OM on Luke, maybe movement of some figures like you have. Two light touches instead of one more powerful power. Also that way a lot of OMs will go on Luke early on, but they’ll drift to the other guys once they get into combat. That seems kinda handler-y to me.

Other ideas that wouldn’t screw with Songbird would be stuff like att/def boosts, OM efficiency, or initiative boosts. Is there a specific theme of leadership you’re looking for? I’m assuming the T-bolts aren’t exactly thrilled to be working for him, right?
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  #1618  
Old February 26th, 2019, 01:17 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Also, fwiw, my goal here isn't less impactful leadership so much as less direct leadership. I mainly just don't want him fully taking charge and being an OM hub because

a) that clashes with Songbird
b) it might make him a bit too much like the existing Luke Cage
c) it's a faction design goal for me to not do OM hubs for the Thunderbolts

So I think his role just needs to be a little different this time around. I think he should be setting up that big crazy 'natural Crime Fighters mixing with recruited Crime Fighters' build, and offering something conducive to that, but without going full-on bonding hub.
These are precisely the reasons I always enjoy playing the T-bolts

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #1619  
Old February 26th, 2019, 03:25 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

As the handler, maybe he could recover lost OM's? Then the OM's mostly go on his teams cards instead of him, until they fall, then he steps up to pick up the slack.
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  #1620  
Old February 26th, 2019, 11:11 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Is there a specific theme of leadership you’re looking for? I’m assuming the T-bolts aren’t exactly thrilled to be working for him, right?
Kinda mixed. Most of them do at least like being out and doing stuff more than sitting in a cell. He earns respect from most all of em by the end of the run. (Not Crossbones - Crossbones breaks rank and tries to kill Steve, so he gets flunked out of the Thunderbolts.)

I like the OM rescue idea. I think that's a great little efficiency boost that pairs well with Songbird and also makes for a good way to get OMs on the recruited figures' cards. I like that, philosophically - giving the recruits the agency (as represented by OMs) feels like them getting an opportunity to prove themselves as heroes.

Quote:
THUNDERBOLTS PROGRAM
At the start of the game, choose up to 6 Unique Heroes you control with the class of Creature, Criminal, Sorceress, or Terrorist and place a gray Nanite Marker on each of their Army Cards. For the rest of the game, Unique Heroes you control with Nanite Markers on their cards have the class of Crime Fighter instead of what is listed on their cards.

"THE BOSS"
When a Unique Hero you control with a Nanite Marker on its card is destroyed, you may move any unrevealed Order Markers from that card to this card or a different card you control that has a Nanite Marker.
("The Boss" was the name of the story where Luke Cage took over the T-Bolts)

Don't want to go four powers here, or try to stuff the powers too much, so with that direction I'd want to either drop Nanite Restraint or drop Impenetrable Skin and just up his defense to like 8-9 to make him tankier. I love Nanite Restraint just for giving him a way to dunk on Purple Man, but I'd be open to losing it if people think Impenetrable Skin (or another similar defensive power) is the bigger need.
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