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  #241  
Old May 16th, 2020, 08:46 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Okay, now I see. Thank you for spelling it out. I think I like that, but I don't know which version.
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  #242  
Old May 17th, 2020, 04:49 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
SPIRITUAL GUIDE
After revealing an order marker on this Army Card, you may place an Honored Soul Guide figure on the Army Card of any Unique Hero you control.

LAST WILL
After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card, instead of taking a turn with the Honored Soul-Guides, you may choose a previously destroyed small or medium Unique Hero you control with an Honored Soul Guide figure on its Army Card. Remove that Honored Soul Guide from that Army Card, place that Hero adjacent to any figure you control, take a turn with it, and then destroy it.


vs.


something like this:

LAST WILL
After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card you may
  • place an Honored Soul Guide figure on the Army Card of any Unique Hero you control.
  • or instead of taking a turn with the Honored Soul-Guides, you may choose a previously destroyed small or medium Unique Hero you control with an Honored Soul Guide figure on its Army Card. Remove that Honored Soul Guide from that Army Card, place that Hero adjacent to any figure you control, take a turn with it, and then destroy it.
Bullet points haven't ever been used like that officially, have they? I think it's just for different tiers of d20 results (like Unleashed Fury). But this type of use is a C3G thing (see: almost every recent card ). This version has a couple issues, though. The main one being something we've tried to avoid as much as we can: sitting in the start zone. Since the Hero can be placed adjacent to other figures, these guys never have a reason to move anywhere.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
LAST WILL
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, instead of taking a turn with the Honored Soul-Guides, you may place one of them on the Army Card of a previously destroyed Unique Hero. At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, you may remove enough wounds for that Hero to have 1 Life remaining and place it adjacent to any figure that you control. At the end of the round, remove the Honored Soul-Guide from that Army Card and destroy the Unique Hero.
Likewise, this version has at least one issue. If Braxas melts a figure, it doesn't get any wound markers. So it would come back at full health, thus making it a lot more difficult for an opponent to remove before the end of the round. However, that's something that wording can fix, at least.

Here's another shot:


LAST WILL
At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, you may destroy an Honored Soul-Guide you control and place it on the Army Card of one of your previously destroyed small or medium Unique Heroes that does not have an Honored Soul-Guide on its card. Place or remove wounds for that Hero's Army Card so it has 1 Life remaining and place that Hero on the space the destroyed Honored Soul-Guide occupied. At the end of the round, destroy that Unique Hero.


By maintaining placement where a Soul-Guide was, spending a turn or two along the way to position them sets you up better for your 1-Life Hero. By allowing it to happen at the start of a round, you don't have to worry as much about when or where something gets destroyed. You also get the full round with the figure if you're lucky enough for it not to take a wound. By leaving the Soul-Guide on the card, you have to diversify your army and not just give the same Hero three lives (its own plus two Soul-Guides). The best of both worlds, I think. Still fun with something you really only want one more turn out of anyway, like DW7K. Potential with Raelin, perhaps, as your opponent has to either deal with her or wait a round for the aura to go away again.


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  #243  
Old May 17th, 2020, 06:12 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

That's probably the best of the newer versions I've seen. I'm still not convinced that we need a full round rez, but I do like that and I'm willing to test it.
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  #244  
Old May 17th, 2020, 09:41 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
LAST WILL
At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, you may destroy an Honored Soul-Guide you control and place it on the Army Card of one of your previously destroyed small or medium Unique Heroes that does not have an Honored Soul-Guide on its card. Place or remove wounds for that Hero's Army Card so it has 1 Life remaining and place that Hero on the space the destroyed Honored Soul-Guide occupied. At the end of the round, destroy that Unique Hero.
There's things I don't like as much about that power implementation, NecroBlade, but I think the power you proposed in post 242 there might be our best "compromise" power so far.

Any objections to using this one @flameslayer @All Your Pie @Astroking112 ?

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  #245  
Old May 17th, 2020, 11:16 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

I’ve been following things here, just not quite sure where I stand. I think the more we’re necessitated to fiddle with and add conditions to these guys, the less I like their core idea. But I’m willing to test the version caps highlighted to see if the fun factor os there. As flameslayer took note of in his recent test, we’ll have to be concerned about figures like Bramcephys and Krug who get stronger when wounded, as well as high-defense low-like figures like Deathwalkers and Q9.
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  #246  
Old May 17th, 2020, 11:23 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Thankfully, Bramcephys, Krug, the Majors, and the Death walkers are all large or huge, and so not a target for this power.

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  #247  
Old May 17th, 2020, 11:30 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Could we also put a point cost restriction, or does that feel too customy?
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  #248  
Old May 18th, 2020, 12:09 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Too customy.

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  #249  
Old May 18th, 2020, 12:34 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Thankfully, Bramcephys, Krug, the Majors, and the Death walkers are all large or huge, and so not a target for this power.
Ah gotcha, thanks for catching that. It'll still matter for some units, but the only one that's at the top of my head is Evar who might be a fun combination rather than a crazy powerful one. I'm much happier with it knowing that.
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  #250  
Old May 18th, 2020, 01:58 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
LAST WILL
At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, you may destroy an Honored Soul-Guide you control and place it on the Army Card of one of your previously destroyed small or medium Unique Heroes that does not have an Honored Soul-Guide on its card. Place or remove wounds for that Hero's Army Card so it has 1 Life remaining and place that Hero on the space the destroyed Honored Soul-Guide occupied. At the end of the round, destroy that Unique Hero.
There's things I don't like as much about that power implementation, NecroBlade, but I think the power you proposed in post 242 there might be our best "compromise" power so far.

Any objections to using this one @flameslayer @All Your Pie @Astroking112 ?
The more that I look at this, the more that I feel like it's still bogged down. Removing "...does not have an Honored Soul-Guide on its card" at least removes one extra thing for players to remember, but it doesn't exactly make the power simple. It's straying from the simplicity that made Scytale's suggestion appealing, and it's increasingly looking as complex as what we had before.

Here's a quick pass at simplifying it a bit:
Quote:
LAST WILL
At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, you may choose one of your previously destroyed small or medium Unique Heroes. Place or remove wounds from that Hero's Army Card so that it has 1 Life remaining and replace an Honored Soul-Guide that you control with the chosen hero. At the end of the round, destroy that Unique Hero.
This reads significantly better to me and is approaching some of the earlier simplicity, even if it comes at the cost of letting players revive the same hero twice. The only other thing that it really does is remove the placement of Soul-Guides on Army Cards entirely, which is an extra detail for carrying out the implementation of the power that I think we could ultimately live without.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Thankfully, Bramcephys, Krug, the Majors, and the Death walkers are all large or huge, and so not a target for this power.
Hasbro's Incredible Hulk is a Medium 6 figure who gets revived with a fully-loaded Rage Smash. I'm not concerned with compatibility with the Marvel release (neither was Hasbro, officially), but it does illustrate that we could theoretically see such a figure like that that could be revived down the line. Just some food for thought.
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  #251  
Old May 18th, 2020, 02:24 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

I like that version a lot, Astroking. It makes the right sacrifices to make the power simpler.

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  #252  
Old May 18th, 2020, 03:55 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Editing

I think that works, Astro. I still have concerns about it only having one life left, but that might be a concession we have to make.
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