Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Heroscape Strategy Articles
Heroscape Strategy Articles Heroscape Strategy Articles with discussions. Including Order Markers, Units, Game Play, etc.


View Poll Results: Did you find this article useful and/or informative?
Yes. 372 93.00%
No. 28 7.00%
Voters: 400. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #25  
Old September 11th, 2007, 09:42 AM
UranusPChicago's Avatar
UranusPChicago UranusPChicago is offline
BoV Judge Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 9, 2006
Location: TX - Garland
Posts: 1,017
Images: 8
Blog Entries: 5
UranusPChicago knows what's in an order marker UranusPChicago knows what's in an order marker UranusPChicago knows what's in an order marker
I've said it before, and I will say it again, the quickest way to move from a good Heroscape player to a great Heroscape player is Order Marker management. If you get a chance to watch some of the stronger players in Heroscape, you will notice that they very rarely have any wasted turn markers. Knowing the "when and where" of OM placement will absolutely improve your game.

This article is a great help in understanding the roles that certain units play in an army and translates very well into how it applies to Order Marker usage.

Great article, Jexik!

UPC's Heroscape Strategy Blog (and whatever else the Muse sends my way...)

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old September 11th, 2007, 02:00 PM
Velenne's Avatar
Velenne Velenne is offline
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: USA - TX - DFW
Posts: 2,734
Images: 42
Blog Entries: 13
Velenne wears ripped pants of awesomeness Velenne wears ripped pants of awesomeness Velenne wears ripped pants of awesomeness Velenne wears ripped pants of awesomeness Velenne wears ripped pants of awesomeness Velenne wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Couldn't agree more with UPC on all points. The strategy elements of this game are (in order of importance): Army Selection, Order Marker Placement, and finally Unit Placement. A fantastic article! Front page that bad boy!



I've had a lot of success with:

Braxas
Charos
2 x Deathreavers


Which I think demonstrates the points you make in your article. Braxas is the heart and soul of this one, but as a shark she justifies her markers. Charos and the rats are less intensive which allows you to use Braxas to maximum effect. I always play this army aggressively, leading with the rats until they're forward and widespread, then pulling up Braxas and laying waste. Aggressiveness is highly rewarded in Heroscape. Charos is a spectacular, mobile meat shield and never fails as a cleanup.

Still, it's not my best army. But I'm keeping that a secret (sort of) until after October 20th.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old September 11th, 2007, 04:47 PM
Nwojedi's Avatar
Nwojedi Nwojedi is offline
Spider Poison's Nemesis
 
Join Date: May 11, 2006
Location: WI
Posts: 1,663
Nwojedi knows what's in an order marker Nwojedi knows what's in an order marker
Quote:
Originally Posted by UranusPChicago
I've said it before, and I will say it again, the quickest way to move from a good Heroscape player to a great Heroscape player is Order Marker management. If you get a chance to watch some of the stronger players in Heroscape, you will notice that they very rarely have any wasted turn markers. Knowing the "when and where" of OM placement will absolutely improve your game.

This article is a great help in understanding the roles that certain units play in an army and translates very well into how it applies to Order Marker usage.

Great article, Jexik!
I agree 1000%. Killing someones turns is a HUGE benefit and sometimes a great exploit.


For those who don't play with markers. You really can't rate what kind of a HS player you are. Because an army that seems unstoppable without markers, wouldn't even make it in second to last place in a real system. I suggest to anyone not using markers, to start.
For one, it helps end those annoying games where your left chasing a single figure around because you can't catch him. The time you win initiative...you do catch him.


I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old September 11th, 2007, 05:04 PM
Jexik's Avatar
Jexik Jexik is offline
Et tu, Jaxet?
 
Join Date: July 4, 2007
Location: IL - Elgin
Posts: 6,986
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 30
Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death!
I really love peanut butter sandwiches. I could eat them every day. Adding jelly is very popular.

I like pork chops too, but they taste funny on a peanut butter sandwich. I prefer adding mint jelly. A salad can also aid in the digestion of pork.

Bacon is awesome.

And who doesn't love a little chocolate after dinner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old September 11th, 2007, 05:47 PM
ej's Avatar
ej ej is offline
LNoE Hero or Zombie?
 
Join Date: November 10, 2006
Location: Right in the middle
Posts: 3,763
ej knows what's in an order marker ej knows what's in an order marker ej knows what's in an order marker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwojedi

I agree 1000%. Killing someones turns is a HUGE benefit and sometimes a great exploit.


For those who don't play with markers. You really can't rate what kind of a HS player you are. Because an army that seems unstoppable without markers, wouldn't even make it in second to last place in a real system. I suggest to anyone not using markers, to start.
For one, it helps end those annoying games where your left chasing a single figure around because you can't catch him. The time you win initiative...you do catch him.
I won't argue with you. I'll just say that we're looking for different things out of the game.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old September 12th, 2007, 10:09 PM
rdhight's Avatar
rdhight rdhight is offline
Embraces the Suck
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: crawling through holes.
Posts: 2,678
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 4
rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Maybe a good visual representation of the unit types would be a Cartesian graph with one axis representing what the unit returns in exchange for an order marker and the other representing what they do on the opponent's turn.

Also, a good rule of thumb would be that almost any unit that uses special markers has at least some Shark DNA, because the enemy wants to kill it before it delivers its payload. Iskra with unsummoned rechets, Morsbane with a full magazine of negation markers, and Tagawa Samurai all might deserve mention in the Shark list.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old September 12th, 2007, 10:32 PM
Jexik's Avatar
Jexik Jexik is offline
Et tu, Jaxet?
 
Join Date: July 4, 2007
Location: IL - Elgin
Posts: 6,986
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 30
Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Maybe a good visual representation of the unit types would be a Cartesian graph with one axis representing what the unit returns in exchange for an order marker and the other representing what they do on the opponent's turn.
Wow, that would be pretty cool. (I'm picturing a scatterplot with offensive ability/order marker potency on the X axis, and passive abilities on the Y. Menacers would likely form a line right along 45 degree angle. Sharks would be way on the right. Defenders and Cheerleaders would hug the Y axis closely.) [Or even wackier still, do a 3 dimensional graph. X= Order Marker effectiveness, Y= Durability, and Z= Synergies offered. That would really help show why I split up the groups as I did.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Also, a good rule of thumb would be that almost any unit that uses special markers has at least some Shark DNA, because the enemy wants to kill it before it delivers its payload. Iskra with unsummoned rechets, Morsbane with a full magazine of negation markers, and Tagawa Samurai all might deserve mention in the Shark list.
Good point. Tagawa have enough defensive ability for me to have tossed them in with the Menacers, (and I'm pretty sure that's what I did). They definitely have a bit of shark in them too, that's for sure. I don't know if I did anything with Iskra yet, and I think I put Morsbane in as a Niche unit. He's cool, but pretty risky. Let's see what Ulginesh does for his Elven brothers come Wave 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old September 12th, 2007, 10:45 PM
Su_Nan's Avatar
Su_Nan Su_Nan is offline
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: PA - Greensburg
Posts: 586
Su_Nan Woo who?
Moving every figure on every turn is way too overpowering and takes so much away from heroscape. Basically, once you start killing off a small portion of your enemies army, they can't fight as effectively and they will start to lose. This way there is no chance for a come back of any kind. Great squad killers like Cyprien or Q9 would just get overwhelmed.

If you don't use order markers you are just not as good at strategy as those who do. You could almost say you are either not as smart or lazy.

Insanity is the best medicine.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old September 12th, 2007, 10:56 PM
rdhight's Avatar
rdhight rdhight is offline
Embraces the Suck
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: crawling through holes.
Posts: 2,678
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 4
rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Maybe a good visual representation of the unit types would be a Cartesian graph with one axis representing what the unit returns in exchange for an order marker and the other representing what they do on the opponent's turn.
Wow, that would be pretty cool. (I'm picturing a scatterplot with offensive ability/order marker potency on the X axis, and passive abilities on the Y. Menacers would likely form a line right along 45 degree angle. Sharks would be way on the right. Defenders and Cheerleaders would hug the Y axis closely.) [Or even wackier still, do a 3 dimensional graph. X= Order Marker effectiveness, Y= Durability, and Z= Synergies offered. That would really help show why I split up the groups as I did.]
How about a combination of that graph with a little help from the Heroscape Visual Synergy Charts? Rank the units' X and Y effectiveness assuming that they're participating in their hard-wired synergies, and use color-coding or dotted lines to show that some of them won't perform as rated unless they fight together. So you won't need an arrow pointing from Raelin to all units, or Concan to all Knights, but the true synergies, like Blasts/Glads and Knights/Gilbert, would be indicated. Maybe also use the size and shape of the dots to indicate unique/common and ranged/melee....
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old September 12th, 2007, 11:30 PM
Jexik's Avatar
Jexik Jexik is offline
Et tu, Jaxet?
 
Join Date: July 4, 2007
Location: IL - Elgin
Posts: 6,986
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 30
Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Maybe a good visual representation of the unit types would be a Cartesian graph with one axis representing what the unit returns in exchange for an order marker and the other representing what they do on the opponent's turn.
Wow, that would be pretty cool. (I'm picturing a scatterplot with offensive ability/order marker potency on the X axis, and passive abilities on the Y. Menacers would likely form a line right along 45 degree angle. Sharks would be way on the right. Defenders and Cheerleaders would hug the Y axis closely.) [Or even wackier still, do a 3 dimensional graph. X= Order Marker effectiveness, Y= Durability, and Z= Synergies offered. That would really help show why I split up the groups as I did.]
How about a combination of that graph with a little help from the Heroscape Visual Synergy Charts? Rank the units' X and Y effectiveness assuming that they're participating in their hard-wired synergies, and use color-coding or dotted lines to show that some of them won't perform as rated unless they fight together. So you won't need an arrow pointing from Raelin to all units, or Concan to all Knights, but the true synergies, like Blasts/Glads and Knights/Gilbert, would be indicated. Maybe also use the size and shape of the dots to indicate unique/common and ranged/melee....
That's probably a simpler way to go about it than trying a 3 dimensional graph. The hope of separation comes when you realize that for the most part, cheerleaders and bread and butter units have more synergy, and therefore work together. Sharks, menacers, and cleanup units almost uniformly have none. Defenders have some, depending on how you define synergy, but their greatest trait is their high durability.

For the heck of it, I started making a spreadsheet (I'm terrible with spreadsheets) and started assigning numbers from thin air with the three variables. What I quickly found out was that the only thing really separating the ranged bread and butter units (4th mass, stingers, Aubrien archers, etc.) from sharks was their common status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old September 12th, 2007, 11:37 PM
rdhight's Avatar
rdhight rdhight is offline
Embraces the Suck
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: crawling through holes.
Posts: 2,678
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 4
rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Yeah, common-ness should be worth a pretty big jump on the order marker value axis, if not both.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old September 12th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Jexik's Avatar
Jexik Jexik is offline
Et tu, Jaxet?
 
Join Date: July 4, 2007
Location: IL - Elgin
Posts: 6,986
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 30
Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Yeah, common-ness should be worth a pretty big jump on the order marker value axis, if not both.
Hmm... That makes me think.

I had previously been thinking about order marker effectiveness solely from an offensive standpoint. I had given both the Airborne Elite and the 4th Massachusetts line a '10' since they are some of the most potent attackers in the game. Since the 4th Mass are common, and likely have more defense however, the 4th Massachusetts have much more durability.

If I take my Offensive category, and subtract the defensive one, I could end up with some sort of 'Order marker priority, or 'order marker security' score, which would put Bread and Butter units at highest priority, Sharks next, Menacer and Cleanup units near 0, and Cheerleader and Defender units would be negative.

Then if the other variable is overall synergies offered, you could still definitely see the difference between units pretty well.

That would only make for 2 variables, which is much easier to graph.

It'd look a lot like the logo for NBC... but a bit flatter I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Heroscape Strategy Articles
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:38 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.