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  #6445  
Old September 13th, 2019, 08:51 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Thanks Super! I chose the fire breath because his wings have a nice red auru to them which looks like they are heating up. I can take more pictures if you would like.

I thought the tileset may be a problem but since it's volcano based you can spray paint a water tile pretty easily. Like Gothlok, I thought it would be a fun way to customize a little and make it your own.

The feet will need to sit on a large peanut base for sure. I'm moving at the moment so I can't test it around a map but I can get back to you on your question..

Regarding the bonding power, my goal was to limit it to only powers that say the word "bonding" in them. Basically, do what the card says kinda thing. I thought about the Mohicans and other similar bonding powers and felt that they didn't need to be included since they usually take place after they moved. Powers that say bonding specifically always have the bonded hero move first which I wanted to disrupt.

Thanks for the feedback!

Last edited by SuperSamyon; September 13th, 2019 at 10:36 PM.
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  #6446  
Old September 13th, 2019, 10:21 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
Regarding the bonding power, my goal was to limit it to only powers that say the word "bonding" in them. Basically, do what the card says kinda thing. I thought about the Mohicans and other similar bonding powers and felt that they didn't need to be included since they usually take place after they moved. Powers that say bonding specifically always have the bonded hero move first which I wanted to disrupt.
This would also break movement bonding. It would not break powers like Hive Mind, Sifu, Dishonorable Leadership, Kato Kasuro's Command, Omnicron Mobilization/Directed Fire or Mink Link. Targeting the word Bonding specifically, does make the ability quantifiable, but it also makes it inconsistent.
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  #6447  
Old September 13th, 2019, 10:22 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Always good to see another enthusiastic creator. Superfrog pointed out all the same feedback I would give.

I would go a step further and look at all the words on your card. Submitting to a custom group means your custom should fit in (hence no my little pony customs in SoV). Just at a first glance you can see your card is so filled with words, which indicates your custom might have too much going on to fit in with C3V/SoV and classic scape.

I would also caution you on accidental synergy. As a lord you have synergy with the Skeletons of Annellintia which I doubt was your intent.

I vote to review.

That however is one awesome looking dragon. I also recommend posting in your own thread, get some feedback, show some play testing and get some work shopping feedback so your next submission can be a polished as possible.


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  #6448  
Old September 13th, 2019, 10:36 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Regarding the wordiness, it's always a bummer that we have to spell out flying as it takes up a lot of space and makes the card look more busy.

I knew that the bonding break was going to be challenging. I'll see if there is a more elegant way to describe it. Perhaps something along the wear wolf power.

I'll consider resubmitting Styleenian with more traditional heroscape powers. His current setup as it stands now is perhaps a little too radical.

Thanks everyone, I'll withdrawal him.

BTW, would the sov ever consider a power like the fireball with the tileset needed?
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  #6449  
Old September 14th, 2019, 10:25 AM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
Thanks everyone for the feedback. Regarding the wordiness, it's always a bummer that we have to spell out flying as it takes up a lot of space and makes the card look more busy.
Wordiness itself isn't a problem per se, but it is a red flag. A card full of powers is often indicative of a design that needs further revision to clear out the bells and whistles and focus on its core design. In this case, I don't see a connection between Fire Bomb and Despondent. Both are big feature abilities; mixing them together on one card ends up with too much going on for one unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
I knew that the bonding break was going to be challenging. I'll see if there is a more elegant way to describe it. Perhaps something along the wear wolf power.
There are ways to break bonding, like how Lycanthropy changes classes. But it's indirect. Targeting any power with the word "Bonding" is really stretching things; it not only misses some bonding-like powers and affects others that aren't true bonding, but it really comes off as a specifically metagame-screwing power instead of something that seems like it fits naturally in the game.

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Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
BTW, would the sov ever consider a power like the fireball with the tileset needed?
I for one would consider a power that laid molten lava tiles, though I certainly won't speak for everyone on that. As is, I wouldn't upvote the power though, as it's overly complex. Just replacing a destroyed figure with a molten lava tile is wild enough, the rest is extraneous.

More importantly, though, a power that places lava tiles would have to be very, very, very careful. It's dangerously easy to break maps using such tiles. You would have to be able to guarantee that figures won't get stranded behind molten lava and be completely unable to play the game. Given how maps can be designed pretty much any way, that's probably impossible.
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  #6450  
Old September 14th, 2019, 11:56 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
Thanks everyone for the feedback. Regarding the wordiness, it's always a bummer that we have to spell out flying as it takes up a lot of space and makes the card look more busy.
Wordiness itself isn't a problem per se, but it is a red flag. A card full of powers is often indicative of a design that needs further revision to clear out the bells and whistles and focus on its core design. In this case, I don't see a connection between Fire Bomb and Despondent. Both are big feature abilities; mixing them together on one card ends up with too much going on for one unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
I knew that the bonding break was going to be challenging. I'll see if there is a more elegant way to describe it. Perhaps something along the wear wolf power.
There are ways to break bonding, like how Lycanthropy changes classes. But it's indirect. Targeting any power with the word "Bonding" is really stretching things; it not only misses some bonding-like powers and affects others that aren't true bonding, but it really comes off as a specifically metagame-screwing power instead of something that seems like it fits naturally in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
BTW, would the sov ever consider a power like the fireball with the tileset needed?
I for one would consider a power that laid molten lava tiles, though I certainly won't speak for everyone on that. As is, I wouldn't upvote the power though, as it's overly complex. Just replacing a destroyed figure with a molten lava tile is wild enough, the rest is extraneous.

More importantly, though, a power that places lava tiles would have to be very, very, very careful. It's dangerously easy to break maps using such tiles. You would have to be able to guarantee that figures won't get stranded behind molten lava and be completely unable to play the game. Given how maps can be designed pretty much any way, that's probably impossible.
Thanks for the feedback. Looking back at it, while my testing and home games may be able to incorporate the powers listed on the card, they are augmented with the fact that I am present to help clear confusion. Lol. I see now that it is a bit much for an official card. I may move that power to a squad that bonds with my dragon to have the same affect and to scale back confusion. Either way, I agree that it needs to be removed from the dragon as both powers are too aggressive for one card.

Regarding blocking the map, I actually intended for that to happen as part of his power but I can see how that for some people that may break the fun factor. However! This is solvable. Typically lava tends to cool rapidly when it is removed from a heat source. We can simulate this in heroscape by removing the lava tile after the end of a round. This will keep the map from being blocked.

I'm going to revise the card and retest under these conditions. Great feedback!
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  #6451  
Old September 16th, 2019, 01:34 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'm not okay with an auto destruct power, I have concerns about allowing unlimited placement of lava tiles, despondent bonding seems a little too metagamey and relies on undefined terminology (although "bonding" is used in many special power names, it is not actually a keyword in the game), and I'm concerned about the tail of the figure being difficult to place.

With all of that said, I really love your submission. The figure is awesome and the powers are really creative. However I'm going to have to vote to review Styleeian.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #6452  
Old September 16th, 2019, 09:02 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I'm not okay with an auto destruct power, I have concerns about allowing unlimited placement of lava tiles, despondent bonding seems a little too metagamey and relies on undefined terminology (although "bonding" is used in many special power names, it is not actually a keyword in the game), and I'm concerned about the tail of the figure being difficult to place.

With all of that said, I really love your submission. The figure is awesome and the powers are really creative. However I'm going to have to vote to review Styleeian.
Thanks for the feedback! Really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'm in the process of revising him so he conforms to C3V standards of play. Unfortunately I'm in the process of moving so it will be a while before I can fully test him again.

Removed:
1. Despondent bonding power for reasons of confusion and unintended consequences
2. Removed permanent lava tiles gameplay. Lava tiles are now removed at the end of every round so as to not to permanently block movement.
3. Changed personality to cunning.to avoid bonding.
4. To address power matching figure, Fire Bomb Special Attack will be renamed to Black Lavabomb Special Attack. After doing some research there is actually a volcano that spews black lava because it's so "cold." I think this power name actually matches him better since he is mostly a cool shade of black color with red wings. You can read about the volcano here: https://curiosity.com/topics/the-col...ava-curiosity/

Things still to test:
1. Will take pictures of him on a large base with terrain surrounding him to address concerns of tail.
2. Have to retest for points.

Thank you!
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  #6453  
Old September 16th, 2019, 09:57 AM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Styleeian has been withdrawn by the submitter's request and is removed from the process.
@SuperSamyon , after you rework him, I highly recommend posting him to the Pre-SoV Workshop thread. It's a great place to get feedback before making an SoV submission.
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  #6454  
Old September 16th, 2019, 11:09 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Rendar Fy by @capsocrates

The Mariedians are one of VC’s additions to the HeroScape canon, with plenty of unique tools in their arsenal already. A new soldier, Rendar Fy, is gunning to join them in Valhalla. Will he be able to hold his ground, or will his position be compromised?

Balance
At first glance, Rendar Fy is worrying. For 85 points, he potentially offers a souped-up Kaemon Awa, offering one or two attacks of 4 at +1 range with the same durability. This comes with some heavy restrictions—the big one is preventing him from moving during that turn, but his reliance on Sighting to do damage is also key—but the Mariedian faction provides ways to get around this without wasting turns getting him to height.

In practice, though, I’ve found that those shortcomings balance him out nicely. The potential for a Kaemon Awa like figure at 35 fewer points is severely held back by him both needing height to get 4 attack and the fact that he only gets one attack at a modest range if he has to move at all. Rendar Fy won’t be replacing Kaemon Awa any time soon, especially since the Samurai’s double attack comes from a Special Attack that can ignore some pesky defensive powers, has the potential to move up and get 5 attack from height in the same turn, and comes packaged with Counter Strike.

After determining that his weaknesses do a good job of keeping him in check and stop him from eclipsing any existing units, I was still concerned about special scenarios that remove these weaknesses from play. Things like Castle Sieges and Heat of Battle are common outside of the tournament structure, after all. Luckily (or perhaps unluckily, depending on your view of balance), Rendar won’t really be a problem in those settings. Taelord and some Omnicron Snipers (or really any ranged squad of your choice) are a far better option in those situations, and Rendar’s 5 range for his double attack really holds him back there. In Heat of Battle, the opponent can start close to Rendar and remove his height advantage, bringing his attack down to 2 and neutralizing him before he becomes a big threat.

So overall, I find Rendar to be a tightly balanced unit that is far less problematic than he appears on paper.

Theme
No major complaints here. He’s a Mariedian with a battle rifle. The armor and color scheme fit the faction well, he looks like a humanMariedian, and Battle Rifle really evokes the idea of him standing still to unload some extra rounds or take aim at a further target. Soldier is a fitting class, and the statline appears weak but is easily buffed by his abilities in the right circumstances.

I do think that Sighting is a little less justified here (though the Precise personality does help), but it’s an important way to keep the design in check and it wouldn’t work half as well without it. We’ve also seen other similarly high-tech characters with the power before as well, so it gets a pass from me.

Creativity
The only new power here is Battle Rifle, but it’s used to great extent in defining the playstyle of this design. Used in conjunction with Sighting, it creates a unique yet very thematic unit that wants to get to the high ground and stay there, which is fun to play with. Making him a Mariedian for the Guerilla Tactics is another great move to take full advantage of Battle Rifle, emphasizing its importance to the entire design.

Playability
The Mariedians are the obvious choice to pair with Rendar Fy, and they work especially well together. The M-43 Resistance Fighters’ paltry 2 attack is often underwhelming on its own, but it comes with useful positioning utility with Guerilla Tactics. Without Rendar Fy, they only have a handful of options to move, and while each is a fun addition to the faction, it’s Rendar who really shines in coordination with Guerilla Tactics. Not only is he a heavy hitter like Jarek Guy or the B-11s, but he also wants to avoid moving on his own turns to get his full value. If the other players let him march to height unopposed while the M-43s skirmish, then he can be an absolute nightmare to take down later on and deal a ton of damage.

However, if he gets intercepted before he can reach the high ground, he’ll struggle to do much of anything. Even 2 attacks of 2 on equal ground (if you don’t move) is worse than the M-43s, which makes balancing Order Markers on him and correctly predicting your opponents’ movements of the utmost importance. With smart counterplay, stopping him from going on a big destruction spree is definitely doable, and most well-designed maps ensure that even if he does eventually reach height, you can avoid his threat range to greatly reduce his attacking potential.

Without the Mariedians, Rendar struggles a lot more to find value. He’s far from useless, though, on account of being a decent filler at an odd point total, and he does have at least some potential in the less conventional scenarios mentioned above.

Summary
Overall, I found Rendar Fy to be both heavily limiting to play to his fullest potential and a welcome addition to the Mariedian ranks. His weaknesses do a great job of balancing out his strengths, but even when placed in scenarios that mitigate them he still doesn’t dominate the game. Above all else, he's a fun unit that fleshes out a faction in a unique way. It’s my pleasure to vote to induct Rendar Fy into the Soldiers of Valhalla.
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  #6455  
Old September 17th, 2019, 09:19 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Rendar Fy by @capsocrates has received 4 votes to induct (Scytale, superfrog, BiggaBullfrog, and Astroking112) and moves forward in the process.

Last edited by Scytale; September 17th, 2019 at 10:29 AM.
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  #6456  
Old September 19th, 2019, 06:14 PM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Swaysil and the Beakface Rogue have both passed United Fanscape Review and move forward in the process.
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