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  #157  
Old May 8th, 2014, 04:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

I thought the same thing going in but after testing him I would say stay at 5. However a change in Expert Climbing might slow him down enough where he might need the extra Life.

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  #158  
Old May 8th, 2014, 04:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I thought the same thing going in but after testing him I would say stay at 5. However a change in Expert Climbing might slow him down enough where he might need the extra Life.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.


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  #159  
Old May 8th, 2014, 04:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

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I'd next be most interested in seeing some hero tests where the opponent also has multiple attacks. Punisher & Azreal were mentioned.
Azrael won and I have little doubt Punisher would also beat him most of the time. Both of them would still be great at 200.

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  #160  
Old May 8th, 2014, 04:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

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I did not delete anything(you had me freaking out for a moment). I added more Hero tests(including Azrael and Doc Oc), along with the squad tests. He got smoked in the first two squad tests and could have easily been beaten by the Hawkmen except he only took one wound on the first attack(the second Hawkmen hit him with 4 skulls and Conan blanked out, if that would have been the first attack, Conan losses).
That is Conan's biggest weakness, a crushing first attack.

So back to climbing. Should we just give him a grapple-like ability and limit it to 11-20 levels?
I see them now. It looks like he is all over the place in 1 on 1 battles while not fairing well vs. squads. Squads often take down heroes though. Still in general the design tested looks like it falls in the 200-210 range, which is where I thought we wanted him at.

I imagine slower movement would have resulted in ranged units getting more attacks in before Conan could attack, resulting in more losses. I think if we make him slower then we need to boost him somewhere else.
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  #161  
Old May 8th, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

My thoughts exactly. If we do change Expert Climbing, I could see bumping his Life to 6.
His movement was critical in my tests. In fact one thing I was going to stress to future playtesters is that he has only a 5 Move when using Barrage of Blades. This was huge in a few tests with Conan unable to use his SA at times but still able to smash with his normal.

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  #162  
Old May 8th, 2014, 04:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

I like the idea of having his normal move 1 more then the special move. It means he has to charge in a only get one swing of his sword when opponents are at the edge of his threat range, but when the distance is shorter he can make the special 'in the thick of battle' move and attack action. So if we end up dropping the base move to 5, then I'd drop the SA move to 4.
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  #163  
Old May 8th, 2014, 05:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

Which I would only do if he keeps Expert Climbing.
We are at a crossroads. Time to decide YK.
Keep on as is or alter Expert Climbing and possibly raise Life or keep EC and lower move(he would not be able to climb a standard castle wall though).

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  #164  
Old May 8th, 2014, 05:43 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
That power would come up so rarely that I'm starting to wonder if it would be worth putting on at all.
As for my suggestion not "coming up" often enough, so what? Do we really need to see Conan climbing all the time anyway? Is that something that he is just always constantly doing? I mean Superman always flies, and has that power. But he also has X-ray vision that he rarely uses, but when he needs it, it is there. And the same can be said for many figures including someone iconic like Professor X who has a rarely used (typically end game) special attack. Just saying. I don't think Conan has to be climbing all the dang on time to justify the power to be there, and I don't think the power as is, accurately "plays" the character the way he is typically depicted.
He has a move of six - when is it really useful for his height to not count with that move? Only very, very rarely - he wouldn't ever be able to climb high up either.

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SKILLED CLIMBING
When counting spaces for Conan's movement, elevation changes of up to 1 level count as one space. You may ignore Conan's height of 5 when climbing.
To me, that is an acceptable change where a change is warranted, but I do prefer some sort of power that is basically like Sgt Drake's grapple of sorts, because when we do see Conan climbing, it is usually straight up a wall.
Can't comment, don't know the character.
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I think he will play sluggish if we alter Expert Climbing and I would need to redo all my testing thus far.
And we wouldn't want that, now would we? If playing with figures and creating appropriate powers and tweaks isn't fun due to it feeling like work, quit. I did. LOL
I don't think he was complaining, but I see you were joking, so neither am I.
Quote:
Conan should, honestly feel a bit sluggish compared to Superman, Green Lantern, Batman, etc. He isn't super. He should however feel extraordinary when playing against non-supers. I know I know, Batman isn't technically super, but he is the motherfing BATMAN!
Fair enough - however, done like that, he'll probably need to be boosted in other areas, or else come in at significantly less than his 200 Point target. Also about the word I whited out - I have no problem with it... but, you know, family site. (I can't believe I, of all people, am saying this. )
OK, bullet time.
  • It is useful when and only when it is useful. Personally, I always loved playing with city scape themes, and castles, etc. I love buildings. Ground pounders have a terrible time on those maps and a grapple arm really helps. Geez, imagine if the original designers felt the same way as you do, Sgt Drake would have never had his Grapple Arm or anything of the like. It is less frequently useful, sure, but it is still useful when and only when it is useful.
  • I'm the reason children look under the bed at night.
    LOL
  • If you don't know the character, that is not enough of an excuse from wikipediaing his tail. You will learn that there is nothing supernatural or metahuman about him. He is just a man, with lots of skills and savagery.
  • A lot of times I joke about what I really mean. It gets the point across and leaves my victims pondering my meaning. But truly, we don't playtest to confirm our design, we playtest to learn from our design.
  • The cost is what the cost is. It is rare, but at times a character in its design may have a targeted cost range that the designer(s) are looking for. Maybe that is the case here, but I doubt it. I know I wouldn't have a range for him, because usually that is done for figures that have iconic counters that need to be on close or equal terms. In this case, that doesn't seem to apply.
  • Have you ever heard of Marvel's dragon Fin Fang Foom? He has a mom you know. MotherFing.
    I masked the word without spelling it. If any kid reads what I wrote and knows what it is, then that is not the first time he/she has heard it. Otherwise, I just look like an idiot with a typo. LOL Oh darn, is idiot allowed? Is this more family friendly?
Alright, I liked this back and forth bit. Reminds me of past times. But it is time for me to fly back to my cave and stew. Peace.
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  #165  
Old May 8th, 2014, 05:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

Lol Griff... These kids don't know what to make of you.

The "scale 1 space" is more in line with my (incredibly limited) knowledge of Conan... But if YK likes Expert Climbing I think it's fine.

May also want a Hero or two to weigh in too before changing things up too much... (no offense to Griff, who is about as close as you can get).

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  #166  
Old May 8th, 2014, 05:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
  • If you don't know the character, that is not enough of an excuse from wikipediaing his tail. You will learn that there is nothing supernatural or metahuman about him. He is just a man, with lots of skills and savagery.
I wouldn't mind seeing a higher point value associated with him. He is practically super human.

In the R.E.H. stories he is closer to Heracles. It took almost 100 men to bring him down in battle. One time his boat sank so he just swam in the ocean for a few days until he ran into another one, which he single handedly hijacked. He takes severe injuries in stride, without really slowing down. Once he got crucified and more or less shrugged it off
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  #167  
Old May 8th, 2014, 05:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

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Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
That power would come up so rarely that I'm starting to wonder if it would be worth putting on at all.
As for my suggestion not "coming up" often enough, so what? Do we really need to see Conan climbing all the time anyway? Is that something that he is just always constantly doing? I mean Superman always flies, and has that power. But he also has X-ray vision that he rarely uses, but when he needs it, it is there. And the same can be said for many figures including someone iconic like Professor X who has a rarely used (typically end game) special attack. Just saying. I don't think Conan has to be climbing all the dang on time to justify the power to be there, and I don't think the power as is, accurately "plays" the character the way he is typically depicted.
He has a move of six - when is it really useful for his height to not count with that move? Only very, very rarely - he wouldn't ever be able to climb high up either.

Quote:
Oh, and I'm never desperate, but often times I am disparaging. Look me up.
Of this I am aware - I've seen you around.
Quote:
Quote:
SKILLED CLIMBING
When counting spaces for Conan's movement, elevation changes of up to 1 level count as one space. You may ignore Conan's height of 5 when climbing.
To me, that is an acceptable change where a change is warranted, but I do prefer some sort of power that is basically like Sgt Drake's grapple of sorts, because when we do see Conan climbing, it is usually straight up a wall.
Can't comment, don't know the character.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I think he will play sluggish if we alter Expert Climbing and I would need to redo all my testing thus far.
And we wouldn't want that, now would we? If playing with figures and creating appropriate powers and tweaks isn't fun due to it feeling like work, quit. I did. LOL
I don't think he was complaining, but I see you were joking, so neither am I.
Quote:
Conan should, honestly feel a bit sluggish compared to Superman, Green Lantern, Batman, etc. He isn't super. He should however feel extraordinary when playing against non-supers. I know I know, Batman isn't technically super, but he is the motherfing BATMAN!
Fair enough - however, done like that, he'll probably need to be boosted in other areas, or else come in at significantly less than his 200 Point target. Also about the word I whited out - I have no problem with it... but, you know, family site. (I can't believe I, of all people, am saying this. )
OK, bullet time.
  • It is useful when and only when it is useful. Personally, I always loved playing with city scape themes, and castles, etc. I love buildings. Ground pounders have a terrible time on those maps and a grapple arm really helps. Geez, imagine if the original designers felt the same way as you do, Sgt Drake would have never had his Grapple Arm or anything of the like. It is less frequently useful, sure, but it is still useful when and only when it is useful.
  • I'm the reason children look under the bed at night.
    LOL
  • If you don't know the character, that is not enough of an excuse from wikipediaing his tail. You will learn that there is nothing supernatural or metahuman about him. He is just a man, with lots of skills and savagery.
  • A lot of times I joke about what I really mean. It gets the point across and leaves my victims pondering my meaning. But truly, we don't playtest to confirm our design, we playtest to learn from our design.
  • The cost is what the cost is. It is rare, but at times a character in its design may have a targeted cost range that the designer(s) are looking for. Maybe that is the case here, but I doubt it. I know I wouldn't have a range for him, because usually that is done for figures that have iconic counters that need to be on close or equal terms. In this case, that doesn't seem to apply.
  • Have you ever heard of Marvel's dragon Fin Fang Foom? He has a mom you know. MotherFing.
    I masked the word without spelling it. If any kid reads what I wrote and knows what it is, then that is not the first time he/she has heard it. Otherwise, I just look like an idiot with a typo. LOL Oh darn, is idiot allowed? Is this more family friendly?
Alright, I liked this back and forth bit. Reminds me of past times. But it is time for me to fly back to my cave and stew. Peace.
  • It's not that, it's the fact that, with his move the way it is, it would barely be useful even then. Something like Grapple Gun would actually work better.
  • Of that I am aware.
  • I know that stuff about him, that's plain from what everyone's said. I never suggested he has super powers - I just said I don't know the character so can't comment on how he generally CLIMBS! If you're going to chew me out for something, at least make it something I did.
  • I really don't think Tornado was complaining - he was just saying what he'd need to do.
  • I know that, I just always had the impression that there was a range Yodaking wanted this guy to fall in.
  • Fair enough. As I said, no problem with the word - use it all the time. I'm also usually the last person you'll find standing up for the children with $#1t like this.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
  • If you don't know the character, that is not enough of an excuse from wikipediaing his tail. You will learn that there is nothing supernatural or metahuman about him. He is just a man, with lots of skills and savagery.
I wouldn't mind seeing a higher point value associated with him.

In the R.E.H. stories he is closer to Heracles. It took almost 100 men to bring him down in battle. One time his boat sank so he just swam in the ocean for a few days until he ran into another one, which he single handedly hijacked. He takes severe injuries in stride, without really slowing down. Once he got crucified and more or less shrugged it off
Wow - yeah, that sounds pretty major. This guy sounds almost as badass as Jack Bauer. I could see him up to 230 easily based on that - maybe even higher. Also, plus rep for saying Heracles.


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Last edited by Lazy Orang; May 8th, 2014 at 05:59 PM.
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  #168  
Old May 8th, 2014, 06:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Conan - Initial PT Phase

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Which I would only do if he keeps Expert Climbing.
We are at a crossroads. Time to decide YK.
Keep on as is or alter Expert Climbing and possibly raise Life or keep EC and lower move(he would not be able to climb a standard castle wall though).
I'd like to get more heroes to weigh in before seriously considering changing the design. You can hold off on the team tests for now though. I'd also like to see some 'grapple gun' style climbing power options before deciding. I am leaning towards a 5 move/4 move SA/6 life/'grapple gun' climbing power version though.
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