The Book of the Hired Guns

[Hahma]

yea

[IAmBatman]

This passes to playtesting!

[Griffin]

Thanks Bats. I haven't got any tests back yet, but it is still very early.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - I should've sent the pm with those out a lot earlier than you did. I hadn't realized you'd be gone for so long.

[IAmBatman]

Playtest #2 is in from Johnny!

Originally Posted by johnny139

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT HIRED GUNS

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS (Love these guys – the ability to replace JUST attacks is brilliant, and opens a lot of doors to interesting strategies; I was able to come up with two [fighting back while Alfred patches up a Crime Lord/Mastermind and Lex] in only a few minutes.)

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? NOT SURE. (They dominated a lot of matches, but lost the last one rather handily. A lot of it comes down to good rolls vs. bad rolls, height vs. non height… of course, don’t all matches? In any case, I’d feel a lot better if they cost a bit more – 130 seems like it’d be a pretty healthy area.)

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Sinestro Corps Soldier
Hired Guns win; 0 figures lost, 1 Round. (The Guns win initiative and move forward a bit, and the Soldier zooms ahead to tussle. However, two of the Guns get height, and with three attacks, he’s dead – the first does two wounds, he uses his shield on the second, and the last kills him dead.)

TEST 2
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Pyro
Hired Guns win; 2 figures lost, 1 Round. (Pyro wins initiative and starts to climb over the side; the Guns have a very slow start, but manage to climb the opposite hill before Pyro comes into range. Unfortunately, he uses his Living Flames to toast both of them, as they were adjacent. The remaining guns are able to retaliate, despite not having height, and riddle Pyro with holes – five Wounds in only three attacks.)

TEST 3
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Penguin
Hired Guns win; 1 figure lost, 1 Round. (Penguin copters his way over, while the Guns split up – two grab height, two go to cut him off, and one is able to nail a wound on the Penguin. However, Penguin flies over again, and kills him. The two on height come up for backup, but it’s not needed; the remaining Gun on the other side is able to kill Penguin with two solid attacks.)

TEST 4
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Kaemon Awa
Hired Guns win; 2 figures lost, 1 Round. (Kaemon charges forward and snipes a Gun from afar. Using their same “split up” strategy, two come around and two climb. One Gun moves forward and deals THREE wounds to Kaemon, but Kaemon engages and finishes him with a Quick Release. However, the remaining two surround the samurai, and a single attack finishes him yet again.)

TEST 5
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Toad/Guilty McCreech (125 Points)
Toad and Guilt McCreech win; Toad destroyed, Guilty unharmed, 4 Rounds. (Toad crosses the river, while Guilty climbs the hill; the Guns use their same tried-and-true strategy. Unfortunately, it doesn’t go nearly as well, as Guilty outguns those crossing the swamp and kills them both. The other two go to tussle with Toad, and, while one is killed, they eventually put him down. Using his two Order Marker advantage, the last Gun tries to reach Guilty before he’s killed. It doesn’t work.)

_____________________________________________________________

- Squad / Does it pass? NOT SURE. (These guys… are REALLY good. They were close against the Stingers, but had bad rolls, and decimated the Samurai and the Cops. They’re figures that, if you give ‘em an inch, they’ll take a mile, but are strong enough to resist attacks until they can gain height.)

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1

[spoiler]
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Marro Stingers x2
Hired Guns win; 3 figures lost, 3 Rounds. (The Guns gain an early advantage and take out half the Stingers before they can do any real damage. However, the tide turns a bit and a Gun is killed in retaliation. Yet, two more Stingers are destroyed crossing the river. But again, things go toward the Stingers, as the final one climbs a hill and kills two of the remaining Guns. The last two face off, and it’s the Gun that finally wins; again, just barely.)

TEST 2
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Tagawa Samurai
Hired Guns win; 0 figures lost, 2 Rounds. (While it looked good for the Tagawa at first – a few attacks did no damage whatsoever against them as they climbed the hill – it fell apart rather quickly after that, and all three were shot down before they could engage the opponent.)

TEST 3
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. 5th Precinct Beat Cops x2
Hired Guns win; 2 figures lost, 2 Rounds. (Things go well for the Cops to begin with, as they gain height and pick at some Guns from afar. One is killed, and two come in to cause chaos. Two Cops go down, while another from the back kills a second Gun. However, he and another Cop are killed, leaving only the two left in the start zone, and both are destroyed before they can even make an effort.)

Army Test/ Does it pass? FAIL. (The Guns killed Pyro in one turn – and he had height. Again, luck on the side of the Criminals, but they won with only about half losses, even though my grand “park Penguin by Alfred to heal up while the Guns attack” strategy never came to pass.)
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns, Penguin, Street Thugs x4, Alfred Pennyworth (600 Points) vs. Magneto, Pyro, Mystique (595 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Criminals win; Penguin and Alfred destroyed, 2 Guns destroyed, 3 Thugs destroyed, 6 Rounds. (Magneto starts things off by flying onto the nearby cliff, bringing his allies along with Magnetic Throw. At the Guns and Thugs start to wade across the river, Alfred gets into position, waiting to fix up Penguin when he’s wounded, and Penguin himself starts to copter forward. He ends up dealing one wound to Mystique, and later ends up hurting himself when they engage. Taking the opportunity, Mystique gets Alfred in her sights and finishes him off with a single attack. Penguin, however, gets his revenge next turn – though he takes a disengagement strike, he’s able to deal five wounds to Mystique in one Umbrella Gun attack. Shortly after, the Thugs start to swarm Magneto and Pyro, while the Guns come up, as well… and they dispatch Pyro in one turn. Magneto’s now entirely alone, but his height and Magnetic Shield work wonders – at least twenty attacks from the Guns and Thugs are made, but only ONE wound is dealt, total. Magneto, in the meantime, knocks out Penguin, leaving him against four Guns and… fifteen Thugs. Magneto puts up a hell of a fight. He kills off two more Thugs and two Guns with only his normal attack [not risking taking down his shield], but one lucky shot from a Gun takes him down.)

_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass? NOT SURE. (They seemed good at this price; however, three of four were killed before they could do anything at all, and all told they DID kill off Poison Ivy. So, my thoughts from prior tests remain.)
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns, Lex Luthor, Superman, Street Thugs x3, Two Face, Bob, Agent of HYDRA (1000 Points) vs. Joker, Green Goblin, Deadpool, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn (1000 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Team Insano wins; 0 Wounds on Deadpool, all others destroyed, 11 Rounds. (Very eventful first two rounds. Goblin flies over at first, while Lex sends out Superman to act as his fists. In addition, the Thugs start to move out, and Harley runs up behind Gobbie. While Goblin is able to kill one Thug, Superman quickly engages and deals a whopping four damage to him. Harley quickly retaliates by throwing her Smilex Bomb into the start zone, killing Bob along with SEVEN Thugs. So, yeah. That evens things a bit. However, the Guns finish off Goblin, and Harley, engaged with Superman, doesn’t do much at all. Ivy comes along and single-handedly shifts things… she’s able to deal a wound to Superman and kill three of the Guns with her Plant Animation, then moves up to seduce Lex. She does by next turn – but, right afterwards, a lucky shot from the remaining Hired Gun kills her, turning Lex back. By now, Deadpool has entered the fray, and spends most of his time finishing off the squaddies, who can do nothing to stop him. [By the by, Joker’s been using his Reorganized Chaos to mess with Order Markers for quite some time, generally moving them onto the Hired Guns to keep Superman immobile.] Before too long, it’s only Superman left, with Deadpool and Harley fighting back and Joker coming up from behind. He’s able to take down Harley with a single attack, but Deadpool deals another two damage, bringing him up to 4 Wounds. Joker makes Superman sweat a bit, but is dispatched without much effort – unfortunately, Deadpool sticks around for quite some time. About 3 Rounds of back-and-forth, Deadpool doing nothing but heal and Superman blocking all attacks. Eventually, Deadpool gets lucky twice in a row, finishing off Superman.)

FINAL THOUGHTS: They’re underpriced. I love them, but they’re DEFINITELY underpriced. (Well, maybe I love them BECAUSE they're definitely underpriced!) They’re only slightly worse than two squads of Street Thugs, were able to win all but two matches, both of which were either A) because of bad rolls or B) because of bad planning. 140 seems like the sweet spot for these guys, if you ask me. I mean, eight attack of three with each activation... nothing to sniff at!

[Griffin]

Playtests updated on the front page.

What is funny is that we had these guys at 120, but then after I playtested them I bumped them to 130, but I forgot to update the front page. So these guys should definitely be at 130 just as Johnny said.

[IAmBatman]

Doh!

[NecroBlade]

Any chance we can make trigger happy tied to a d20 roll like Penguin's Self-Importance? It seems like the theme for that would be less of a choice (i.e. not "you may").

These guys also seem like quite a bargain (though they'd be less so with the above suggestion). Einar Imperium (who are admittedly a little pricey) cost 140 for a 3-man Double Attacking melee squad. They've got Stealth Flying, sure, but no Range, little synergy (Kiova, Atlaga, and maybe MDG; whereas these guys have the already impressive Crime/Mastermind faction), and of course one less activation per OM (and that's not even counting the Crime Lord's movement).

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, but being a Unique Squad is a major weakness because you only have to kill one of them for their effectiveness to be significantly lowered.
Also, the Einar Imperium kind of suck.

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

Any chance we can make trigger happy tied to a d20 roll like Penguin's Self-Importance? It seems like the theme for that would be less of a choice (i.e. not "you may").

These guys also seem like quite a bargain (though they'd be less so with the above suggestion). Einar Imperium (who are admittedly a little pricey) cost 140 for a 3-man Double Attacking melee squad. They've got Stealth Flying, sure, but no Range, little synergy (Kiova, Atlaga, and maybe MDG; whereas these guys have the already impressive Crime/Mastermind faction), and of course one less activation per OM (and that's not even counting the Crime Lord's movement).

I hear ya, I do, but as Bats said, they are a unique squad, and that is enough to really power check them I think. And so far the playtesting seems to be supporting their current cost.

[NecroBlade]

I completely missed the unique part. They're probably perfectly fine then.

[IAmBatman]

Griffin traded me playtests (he'll be doing MODOK tonight, he promised me!) in order to get this one done.


C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT THE HIRED GUNS

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS though I think I'd almost rather give them a full activation for positioning than bother with Trigger Happy most of the time.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Robin (120)
Hired Guns won on Turn 3 of Round 1 with 3 left. Robin, without a multiple attack, just had no shot here, even with the first attack.

TEST 2
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Harley Quinn (130)
Harley Quinn proved a great counter here - she won with one life left after one full round. As much as the Hired Guns tried to spread out, Harley still hit two of them with her bomb (but failed to remove an Order Marker). Her acrobatic abilities then helped her stand up to their double attacks, but they still got in enough attacks to make this one very close. Good match up!

TEST 3
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Jonah Hex (130)
Hired Guns took down Jonah on their first series of attacks, finishing him without losing a figure on Turn 2 of Round 1. Again, mid-level heroes without multiple attacks or special defensive powers have no shot. Jonah's really a hero killer, though, so this doesn't surprise me.

TEST 4
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Two-Face (130)
Two-Face went on an early three attack streak early with Coin Flip and killed two Hired Guns, but they went on to kill him one the final of their four attacks to win on Turn 3 or Round 1! If Two-Face had managed to defend against one more attack, I think he could've won this one. Fairly close. 130 is feeling fairly good so far.

TEST 5
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Madame HYDRA (140)
Madame HYDRA loses a lot of synergy without her HYDRA agents. She lost on Turn 2 of Round 1 with 3 of 4 Hired Guns left. Her superior threat range got her the first kill, but she wasn't quite stout enough to handle the response from the Hired Guns.

_____________________________________________________________

- Squad / Does it pass?
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Beat Cops x2 (130)

Spoiler Alert!

Even stripped of the worth of their special powers, the Beat Cops showed the value of superior numbers and initiative. They won on Turn 2 of Round 1 with 4 of 6 Cops remaining. The Cops got initiative and got the first attacks off, from height, taking out three poor defense rolling Hired Guns. The last of the Guns managed to take out two Cops, but couldn't defend against the next attack he received.

_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130), Lex Luthor (100), Superman (400), Street Thugs x1 (70), and Black Mask (100) (800) vs. Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Green Arrow, Black Canary (790)

Spoiler Alert!

The Hired Guns team won on Turn 2 of Round 4 with a full life Superman and full life Lex Luthor left. The villains had good luck here, with Lex never failing a Red Kryptonite roll on about 6 attempts. Green Arrow and Black Canary exhausted themselves against squads, leaving Superman to clean up without a special attacker to worry about. Hawkman was easily targeted first during end game, leaving him without an ability to benefit from Hawkgirl's wounds. The Hired Guns advanced early, hoping to get in position to benefit from Trigger Happy, but their offensive potential was high enough to make them a priority target, and Green Arrow took them down early. They at least put two wounds on Green Arrow first. Black Mask killed one Street Thug and one Hired Gun with his Criminal Motivation. This test felt plenty balanced - the hero team just didn't have a good enough Superman counter.

_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130), Madame HYDRA (140), HYDRA Agents x2 (160), Red Skull (190), Body Guards x4 (30) (680) vs. Thor (430), and Iron Man (240) (670)

Spoiler Alert!

Iron Man wins on Turn 2 of Round 5 with 1 wound on his card and Thor dead. The Hired Guns were the featured offense here and managed to help take down Thor by attrition, scoring 6 of his 8 wounds (Madame HYDRA put the other two on, including the finisher, with her Venomous Strike). Iron Man cleaned things up, though, his double attack shredding what was left after Thor's hammer ripped people apart to begin with.
The Hired Guns are really nasty offensively, but they're pretty weak defensively and they require a good deal of finesse as a player to get full value out of. I think they're solid at 130 points.