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  #73  
Old May 23rd, 2019, 11:37 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

Im willing to begin testing him as is. 140 seems like a safe start.

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  #74  
Old May 24th, 2019, 12:06 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I do not think that an attack die for NE is truly different than a D20 with a roll of 11 or higher. Sure, it may look different, but it's still needless ornamentation in my opinion, and the design feels better off without the "take a chance to boost your chance to get a chance to take a turn with another figure."
I was just saying to keep it in mind if we went a wound-chance route at all. We are going with guaranteed wound (and the boost was always guaranteed in any version I feel.)
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  #75  
Old May 24th, 2019, 01:00 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

I know, I just wanted to stress that it detracts from the design for the same reasons, at least in my eyes. If we do end up going down the wound-chance route later, though, I would say that an attack die at least feels better than another D20 there.

If we're fine with the guaranteed wound and Mind Jack, then I'd agree that Jydel(?) is ready to begin playtesting. I'm somewhat fond of 4L/4D over 5L/3D, but that's a minor enough preference that I'm fine with starting testing either way.
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  #76  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:10 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

Using attack dice instead of 11+ for 50/50 chances is different because the roll cannot be modified by Lodin or other d20 enhancers.

I do think we may need a vote on exactly what Neural Enhancement does.

Quote:
Before taking a turn with [?] Jydel [?], you may place a wound marker on this card to add 2 to his Move, Range, and Attack this turn.
Quote:
Before taking a turn with [?] Jydel [?], you may roll one unblockable attack die against Jydel to add 1 to his Move, Range, and Attack this turn.
Quote:
Before taking a turn with [?] Jydel [?], you may add 1 to his Move, Range, and Attack this turn, then roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 7 or lower, place a wound marker on this card.
Etc, etc.

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  #77  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:20 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

I don't think that Lodin or other D20 enhancers change the fundamental feeling of the power.

"Roll one unblockable attack die against Jydel(?)" is C3G wording, I believe. If we end up going that route, we should probably follow Eltahale's example instead and say:
Quote:
Before taking a turn with Jydel, you may add X to his attack/range/move. If you do, roll 1 attack die. If a skull is rolled, place 1 wound marker on this Army Card.
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  #78  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:21 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

My impression is that there was a rough consensus on at least trying the version of Neural Enhancement with an automatic wound. Regardless, if we're putting things up for vote, the version I support is the one where you place a wound marker to gain a +2 attack boost and no other boosts.

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  #79  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

You're right, we would use the (horribly wordy) Eltahale wording if we went that route. I still may be coming around on wound chance instead of automatic, but I don't particularly like the idea of a run of good luck essentially permanently boosting his stats with no downside. What about modeling it after Stinger Drain? Very low roll is a wound, mid roll is nothing, high roll is boost?

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  #80  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:33 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
You're right, we would use the (horribly wordy) Eltahale wording if we went that route. I still may be coming around on wound chance instead of automatic, but I don't particularly like the idea of a run of good luck essentially permanently boosting his stats with no downside. What about modeling it after Stinger Drain? Very low roll is a wound, mid roll is nothing, high roll is boost?
This could work in theory, but we would need to rework the base numbers slightly I feel. Taking a turn with Stingers and getting no boost is hardly a disappointment, but taking a turn with a single 3 attack hero and not getting the boost because you got unlucky is a massive waste of an OM.

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  #81  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:37 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

I imagine it would keep his cost down, for sure.

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  #82  
Old May 24th, 2019, 02:43 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

I'm not sure how low it would actually take his cost. He still has massive combat potential (with potentially 5 dice from range, or 6 from height) and the possibility to Mind Control another hero. Adding more chance to the mix will make him less reliable, but official HeroScape mostly priced everything similar under its best potential (Deadeye Dan, Sudema, etc.). There are some other examples like Atlaga or Braxas, but I would imagine that he still wouldn't be cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
You're right, we would use the (horribly wordy) Eltahale wording if we went that route. I still may be coming around on wound chance instead of automatic, but I don't particularly like the idea of a run of good luck essentially permanently boosting his stats with no downside. What about modeling it after Stinger Drain? Very low roll is a wound, mid roll is nothing, high roll is boost?
Stinger Drain inherently runs into the same problem. If you keep rolling well enough, you'll just keep getting the boost with no downside. If we tweak it to be more reliable to make him more worth his cost/potential (and to avoid the frustration of wasting an OM on him), then the odds of a good run get more likely, but if we tweak it too much the other way, we end up with Sudema.
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  #83  
Old May 24th, 2019, 06:52 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Jace, Investigator) - Design

I say let’s test it with a auto-wound giving +2 attack.

If testing reveals that combination is too strong, we can fiddle with it. If it reveals it’s not strong enough (or if the risk doesn’t justify the reward most of the time) we can move to a wound-chance.

We can go round in circles theoryscaping all day, but I think this is something that’ll come out in PT.
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