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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #133  
Old December 1st, 2018, 06:29 AM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

He can work at his own pace if that’s what you want. No rush from me. I’m optimistic that the only thing left is nailing down the cost.
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  #134  
Old December 1st, 2018, 01:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

My games are actually probably gonna be a little late - realized I have a Codex article to knock out.
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  #135  
Old December 1st, 2018, 02:05 PM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

I look forward to reading the article!
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  #136  
Old December 3rd, 2018, 08:51 AM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

Played my first test game against Alexan yesterday - I was running Goliath, Iron Patriot, Jason Voorhees, and Invisible Woman against a Luke Cage build. Goliath took a gamble early in the game and lost. He ran out and snagged Luke Cage, which was cool, but he left the protection of Invisible Woman to do it. I was gambling on winning the next initiative and getting to move Sue up with Chaotic Leadership, but it didn't happen for me.

Goliath did deny Luke one turn and get a wound on him, but he ended up going down pretty hard as the first casualty of the game. The Crime Fighters ended up with a blowout win thanks to a sub-par performance from my auto-wounders, and really beefy defense rolls for the Crime Fighters; at one point Luke Cage no-sold six attacks in a row even though Iron Patriot had height on him. Bad for anyone, terrible for a Master Motivator unit.

Anyway, Goliath felt fun (but maybe a bit overcosted? I could see him weighing in a little closer to Giant-Man, at 180-190). Will hit game two and turn in the full formal report tomorrow night.
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  #137  
Old December 3rd, 2018, 09:19 AM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

I’m glad he seemed fun! Bringing his cost down would be nifty. I look forward to the reports.
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  #138  
Old December 3rd, 2018, 12:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

Our weekend got away from us but I'll type up the report soon but I did want to echo Ronin here, with the defense drop I could see his cost coming down a bit as well. His team lost fairly badly but some of that was poor playing on my part. But he didn't feel as overwhelming in my second game as he did in the first with the higher defense. I too used Invisible Woman in my build.
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  #139  
Old December 4th, 2018, 06:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Goliath

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Goliath @210, Iron Patriot, Invisible Woman, Jason Voorhees (890) vs Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Iron Man Mk IV, Songbird, Skrull Infiltrator (890)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Goliath @210, Batman (III), Atom (Ray), Beast, Rover (840) vs Star-Lord, Hawkeye (II), Robot, Marrow (840)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Goliath is fun, but he feels overcosted to me - he's not as hugely underpowered as 2 blowout losses suggests (for reasons I mention in the game descriptions), but he doesn't feel like he's especially close in value to say, Meteorite (also a disruptive, scissor-y figure with a decent attack).

I'd guess he's a little more like a 170-180 point value? Giving up your attack is a pretty big deal if you whiff on a Giant Grab, and it's not like he's a Mutant or something that lets you easily get him as one of multiple activations on an OM.
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  #140  
Old December 4th, 2018, 07:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

Thanks a ton. I'll be happy if his cost comes down, we will see what japes comes up with.
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  #141  
Old December 5th, 2018, 01:02 AM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

Test in from KidArachnid:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Arachnid
Note from japes: sorry for the delay and I quickly typed up the summaries based on his notes. the final opinions are his though.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Goliath

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Goliath @210, Giant Man, Invisible Woman, Human Torch (830) vs Nightwing, Starfire, Raven, Superboy (840)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________
Rematch with Defense dropped to 5
Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Goliath @210, Giant Man, Invisible Woman, Human Torch (830) vs Nightwing, Starfire, Raven, Superboy (840)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Goliath is fun and I really liked his hold power. I though he was not worth 210 points with the lowered defense. I liked that I had a way to escape even if he didn't attempt to Squeeze but I did waste a lot of Nightwing turns trying to escape in the first game since my dad wouldn't Squeeze.

When you miss the Grab power it feels like a wasted turn but it's cool when it works.
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  #142  
Old December 5th, 2018, 01:14 AM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

It seems like our final testers thought a price drop is in order. Ronin suggested 180 and that looks pretty good to me, any thoughts?
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  #143  
Old December 5th, 2018, 03:07 AM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

Kind of amazing that +1 defense has such a significant effect here on this particular design. I wouldn't normally think changing base defense from 5 to 6 was worth more than 30 points but he was clearly killing it at 210 & 6 def., then started losing ever game at 5 def. The Giant Defense power certainly plays a role in that as indicated by KidA in his report. Do you prefer the 5 def. 180-190 price point or the 6 def. 220-230 price point. Should he be significantly higher than Hank Pym Giant-Man?
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  #144  
Old December 5th, 2018, 09:53 AM
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Re: The Book of Goliath (Bill Foster) (Public playtesting)

I played as the Giant's in both games against my son and it did seem like that 1 defense was a big deal. Rolling one shield with 6 dice "felt" almost automatic and typically was enough dice to block most attacks anyway. 5 dice added a bit of perceived hope in cracking through for my son. He was visibly frustrated in the first game when he managed to get Goliath out of Sue's force field and still managed to do very little.

We play a lot with Luke Cage and he has 5 defense and a similar defensive power so that could cloud our perception of 5 defense being less frustrating.

Thematically I don't think he should overshadow Giant-Man but it could be argued that C3G Giant-Man is a rookie so I guess it's fine either way.
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