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  #6349  
Old July 9th, 2019, 04:50 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
I'd like to resubmit the Specters of Aldorn


Changes are simple; 60 points, and the class is now Terrors. I feel that this class fits thematically, as their abilities are designed around the idea of scaring their target, and attacking while they are less defended.

I have also posted the Unique Hero designed to synergize with these Specters in the Pre-SoV workshop for feedback.
Reaper has some great "invisible" minis that can be used for these guys in a heartbeat:

Just search Invisible under Reaper:

Invisible Rogue
Invisible Wizard
Invisible Ranger
Invisible Warrior


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  #6350  
Old July 9th, 2019, 06:19 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
Reaper has some great "invisible" minis that can be used for these guys in a heartbeat:

Just search Invisible under Reaper:
Spoiler Alert!
Invisible Rogue
Spoiler Alert!
Invisible Wizard
Spoiler Alert!
Invisible Ranger
Spoiler Alert!
Invisible Warrior
While this is true, the figures I used are still in production for roughly the same price, and sometimes cheaper in some stores.
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  #6351  
Old July 9th, 2019, 07:10 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Oh I was not knocking your choice but more options are always good. Plus I like these as they are a bit beefier.


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  #6352  
Old July 9th, 2019, 07:37 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
Oh I was not knocking your choice but more options are always good. Plus I like these as they are a bit beefier.
I was actually considering using some of these for expanding the faction.
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  #6353  
Old July 9th, 2019, 10:18 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Nothing to see here, just wriggz posting in the SoV thread...

...Wait a second, who are you again?

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
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google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

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  #6354  
Old July 29th, 2019, 03:52 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Catalan Mercenaries have passed United Fanscape review and move forward in the process.
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  #6355  
Old August 1st, 2019, 12:49 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Rujin by @Sir Heroscape

A monster from another age… with terrifying destructive powers… his victims fought for their lives in a silent, eerie underwater battleground! Curse of the Swamp Creature! At least that is what the movie poster says, lets see if the critics agree.

Balance
Obviously, as with any bonding hero we look to the squad’s other bonding options to ensure other units are not outclassed as to lose relevancy. In this case the Durgeth Ravagers have 3 other options: Zombie Hulks, Pel and Uzog. Zombie hulks are hardly worth mentioning as they synergize elsewhere and have a significant point difference. While Pel also has other synergies, I find him and Uzog stack up well against Rujin, since 6 life and 3 defense is comparable survivability in various match ups. Additionally, all 3 can throw out lots of attack dice, with Pel being more consistence, Uzog taking time to charge up, and Rujin being map dependant. Personally, I prefer Uzog since I find he can weather the storm against multiple attacks, and while setting up his aura is challenging, it can help bring down tougher heroes.

On his own and when out of his swampy element Rujin is very comparable to the Feral troll, throwing one more die against squads and unwounded heroes, but potentially 2 less against wounded heroes for 10 points more. Any one who ran the D&D campaign included in Battle for the Underdark knows how potent Feral Trolls can be against heroes, so the trade off against squads seems fair. On swampy maps Rujin comes into his own, but so do Dzu-Teh and Obsidian Guards on snowy and lava maps respectively. While single attack heroes face an uphill battle against Rujin when he has homefield advantage, it is not an impossible feat to bring down the troll, and smart play has the potential to avoid the situation entirely.

It is worth noting Rujin’s move of 5. Having average move, which is less than or equal to the range of most units prevents Rujin camping in swamp and then moving to attack active shooters with Lurking Assault on the next turn as swamp is commonly placed at least one level lower than surrounding tiles. With 6 move Rujin could rundown attackers with 6 range, negating the opposing figures first strike, significantly improving Rujin’s value. If ranged units can stay one unit above swamp terrain they can also reduce the impact of Swamp Regenerate for the same reasons.

Theme
Swamp monster is a classic horror movie trope, and Rujin fits it well. From the suggestion of surprise attack that comes form Lurking Assault to the large size and green skin on the miniature, I could see Rujin being the antagonist of a campy movie featured on Mystery Science Theater. High life, low defense and regeneration fits the established Troll mythos, Krug notwithstanding. While I prefer Uzog with the Ravagers, I could see them summoning Rujin to join them in their hunt, building on the thematic synergy.

Creativity
Sometimes truly creative units may seem obvious or simply cribbed off an existing unit, however creating a unit that fits in with classic designs requires restraint and creativity. While Rujin happens to be both a “terrain” unit and a bonding option for the Ravagers, neither design goal feels forced. I also appreciate the restraint to keep to 1 defense and 5 move instead of bulking up this species of troll. Finally, while it would have been easy to copy Lurking Ambush from Othkurik, the extra move would have been a theme fail, and has the potential to over power the figure in many match ups.

Playability
As with the Feral Troll, Rujin can hold his own when faced with small bands of heroes in and out of the swamp setting. While I will continue to favor the Feral Troll in the official scenarios, the main question is weather Swamp Regenerate is overpowered on swampy maps in the various formats Heroscape is played. Often during testing it is more efficient to set up scenarios where the unit will come into play rather than running a full game. With swamp regenerate, Rujin is well suited for the endgame. Additionally, squads and multi attack heroes can quickly eat through its 8-life due to the one defense die. Playing endgame scenarios on swamp heavy maps heavily favors Rujin, almost to the point of being overpowered. Against melee heroes less than 100 points, Rujin can camp on swamp water and terrain requiring the hero to come to him. This means you are required to do a minimum 3 damage or more to make any progress turn to turn. This situation is often tiresome and feels somewhat unfair, and almost drew an instant fail vote.

The key for opponents of Rujin is to avoid this situation. After expanding my testing criteria, I found battling against Rujin became more nuanced. Without Ravagers, Rujin carries a “lack of synergy cost”, where any army it is facing is likely to work together more harmoniously, and 100 points is big chunk of an army to tie up in an endgame figure that has weakness against range and multiple attacks. Even with Ravagers, moving up Rujin is a risk. I found it possible to draw Rujin to the front lines during normal attrition with the Ravagers, then to pull back to limit engagement, thus reducing bonding turns. It was then possible to take shots at Rujin with either stray squad member or another ranged unit. While this strategy required giving up board control, it caused the player controlling Rujin to either move to protect Rujin and lose momentum or press forward leaving Rujin isolated, and prone to attack.

I found Spartacus and the Gladiators could break the Rujin backed Ravagers, with a stray gladiator often being enough to take off several wounds on a sleeping Rujin. Even two attack ranged squads could allow a figure or two to flank the Ravagers and take pot shots on the troll, whittling down his substantial life. On the flipside if the Ravagers could keep up their momentum they have the potential to tear through the board leading to the ideal scenario above. I enjoyed leading with Uzog or Pel and drafting Rujin as a back up hero. Swamp Assault was helpful when it came up, but 4 attack felt fair when swatting at squad figures and weaker heroes, since Rujin is not built to go toe to toe with the likes of Majors 9 and 10 or powerful Dragons unlike his Feylund cousin.

Summary
Except in a very specific niche Rujin plays like other 100-point units, being okay against a lot of armies but not great at anything. While the troll is strong in endgame scenarios, gladiator matches and dungeon crawls through the swamp, he is vulnerable to squads, and ranged attacks and is nothing special out of his element. What I like most about Rujin is it feels like the creator wanted to design a swamp troll instead of a bonding hero for the Ravagers, an endgame hero or a terrain dependent unit.

I vote to induct Rujin into the Soldiers of Valhalla.


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  #6356  
Old August 1st, 2019, 01:50 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Nice review, wriggz! Thanks for finishing that up!

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
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google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

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  #6357  
Old August 2nd, 2019, 05:10 AM
Gabrielsab Gabrielsab is offline
 
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
Beakface Archer by Sir Heroscape
(and Beakface Rogue)

I'm not giving a full review of these two. I was weary of the Archer from the start, and testing only confirmed my fears. While they are supposed to be a supplementary force for the Beakface Sneaks, to me they played more like a replacement for them. I'm not comfortable with a new SoV essentially obsoleting an old one, and thus can't support these units as they currently stand.


I vote to induct the Beakface Archer and Rogue to the SoV.

--
Without wanting to offend you ; I allow myself a question about your analyse. Have you test Beakface Rogue with a Rogue army ?

I’m trying it with Nottingham Brigand and Kha/Millerson. The result is interesting. Their sneak attack is a good answer against opponent’s melee attack.
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  #6358  
Old August 2nd, 2019, 09:55 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

oh I just got Rujin in the mail. I ended up with a sea troll from skull and shackles set. it looks more swampy but has two big hatches. not a bad stand in either way.


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  #6359  
Old August 2nd, 2019, 09:57 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
oh I just got Rujin in the mail. I ended up with a sea troll from skull and shackles set. it looks more swampy but has two big hatches. not a bad stand in either way.
Haha yeah, they’re basically the same sculpt
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  #6360  
Old August 2nd, 2019, 12:08 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielsab View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
Beakface Archer by Sir Heroscape
(and Beakface Rogue)

I'm not giving a full review of these two. I was weary of the Archer from the start, and testing only confirmed my fears. While they are supposed to be a supplementary force for the Beakface Sneaks, to me they played more like a replacement for them. I'm not comfortable with a new SoV essentially obsoleting an old one, and thus can't support these units as they currently stand.


I vote to induct the Beakface Archer and Rogue to the SoV.

--
Without wanting to offend you ; I allow myself a question about your analyse. Have you test Beakface Rogue with a Rogue army ?

I’m trying it with Nottingham Brigand and Kha/Millerson. The result is interesting. Their sneak attack is a good answer against opponent’s melee attack.
The Beakface Rogue is comparable offensively to Darrak Ambershard in a Rogue army. Otherwise, of course, they’re apples and oranges. Glad to see Kha getting some play. What do you think of Millerson?
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