The Book of Tandros Kreel

[Taeblewalker]

Originally Posted by Bonecrusher

1. No
2. Yes, but Tandros has to be targeted first, then another figure can be targeted.
3. Jotun's swing requires you to select a figure to attack (has to be Tandros). Any other figures are also attacked. In general, yes.

If 3 didn't work, then Explosion and Rain of Fire wouldn't work either.
I expect that double attack, whirlwind attack and special attacks like Acid Spray from Othkurik, Nilf's Ice Shards or Kaemon Awa's Quick Release would be limited to just Tandros unless he was killed by the first attack, even if the other potential targets were next to the attacker.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker

I expect that double attack, whirlwind attack and special attacks like Acid Spray from Othkurik, Nilf's Ice Shards or Kaemon Awa's Quick Release would be limited to just Tandros unless he was killed by the first attack, even if the other potential targets were next to the attacker.

Othkurik can hit two others adjacent to Tandros with Acid Spray. Just choose two others to be affected. They aren't separate attacks. It's more like a selective shotgun blast.

[spiteofthedice]

The essential clarification I'm going to put in the Book is that other figures can still be "affected," by an attack, if that is the way it is worded on the card, but only Tandros can be "targetted."

I believe that covers it.

EDIT: Done. The clarification is VERY wordy, but padlock raised several distinct cases, and I wanted to incorporate each one into the explanation. I think the phrasing is clear. As always, anyone may offer a suggestion.

[padlock]

Thanks spite. Nice write up.

Just a note though. While I agree with the answers given, I'm not sure that basing the distinction on whether or not the unit is targeted versus attacked/affected is technically correct. Take pelloth's special for example. We know that it doesn't have a target, but I would argue that he still wouldn't be able to attack another figure while he's adjacent to Tandros.

I think a better distinction is recognizing the difference between multiple attacks, and a single attack which affects multiple units.

[killercactus]

If Pelloth was engaged to Tandros and someone else and used Lolth's Wrath, I think he has to give all of the wounds to Tandros until Tandros is dead. Only then can he deal wounds to the other figure.

Mimring would also be a unique case. If Mimring used Fire Line while engaged with Tandros and one other figure, he would have to choose a line that started with the hex Tandros was on. Anyone else in the Line is also affected by the attack.

I think these are the only two attacks that don't target someone.

[spiteofthedice]

Originally Posted by padlock

I'm not sure that basing the distinction on whether or not the unit is targeted versus attacked/affected is technically correct. Take pelloth's special for example. We know that it doesn't have a target, but I would argue that he still wouldn't be able to attack another figure while he's adjacent to Tandros.

I think a better distinction is recognizing the difference between multiple attacks, and a single attack which affects multiple units.

The bolded part is not what the clarification actually says, though, the distinction is between a figure being targeted (which is, I guess, the same as "attacked") and merely affected as a side-effect of the attack (as in an Explosion SA). I'm pretty sure the distinction holds up. Only Tandros can be targeted. Other figures can still be affected in accordance with the description of the Attack.

As for the Pelloth question, it has already been established that Lolth's Wrath must destroy figures engaged with Pelloth before it can affect figures not engaged (See Pelloth's Book). It follows, like killercactus says, that

Originally Posted by killercactus

If Pelloth was engaged to Tandros and someone else and used Lolth's Wrath, I think he has to give all of the wounds to Tandros until Tandros is dead. Only then can he deal wounds to the other figure.

I fully agree with this (as well as the Mimring bit).

[padlock]

Originally Posted by spiteofthedice

The bolded part is not what the clarification actually says, though, the distinction is between a figure being targeted (which is, I guess, the same as "attacked") and merely affected as a side-effect of the attack (as in an Explosion SA). I'm pretty sure the distinction holds up. Only Tandros can be targeted. Other figures can still be affected in accordance with the description of the Attack.

It's my understanding that targeted and attacked are not the same. Pelloth's special doesn't have a target, but does result in attacks (which is why the M.R.T. can't roll for concealment against it, but Isamu can try to vanish).

I do believe however that in heroscape terminology 'attacked' and 'affected' (when talking about an attack) are equivalent.

[spiteofthedice]

Okay:

1) Padlock: I see that you are correct. The word "affected" has been ruled to be the same as "attacked" for the purpose of powers like Vanish, and therefore I can't word the clarification the way I thought I could.

2) I think I fixed it. I think I had the ruling right and only the terminology needed fixing. The distinction is NOT between a figure being "affected" and "targeted." Actually, it is just whether the figure is affected by a separate Attack or as a side-effect of an Attack on Tandros. The latter is okay. The former is not. I left the words "targeted" and "affected" in the explanation to show this distinction, but I think I took them out where they didn't make sense.

*3) Rev- really sorry for the clutter. Just trying to get this ironed out.

~Spite, Bookishly

[Revdyer]

Not a problem, spiteofthedice. We'll get this cleaned up come next summer. <smile>

[chaoserver]

Tandros is probably the first unit I had to play to see his true power, I drafted him out of obligation because my two DnD sets came and we all wanted to test, in a 4 player 600 point draft. For some reason because everyone else was bashing him I didn't start my charge with him, and ultimately after many rounds my forces had dwindled, to a feral troll, raelin and him. One player had been wiped out, cyprien with many wounds stayed away because he would only have been able to chilling touch raelin and would not get an attack through on tandros most likely, and had ultimately died elsewhere as a result of that ability keeping him at bay.

So that ability played a huge role there very nicely. However cleave ended up as the best ability in that game easily, the strongest player other than me had ne gok sa and zettian which were holding down glyphs and one which was on shadow, he had a huge burst of luck and mindshackled both a feral troll from me and sergeant drake 170 pointer with three order markers and became a huge threat as there was no way I could take down negoksa with all his defense bonus or sergeant drake, let along the zettians that were holding down the defense glyphs.

However when the third player who was alive arrived with his Runa, who had been using all game and was ignored heavily due to bigger threats things changed. He killed Drake with a lucky D 20 which of course has nothing to do with Kreel, however using cleave over the course of a round I attacked Runa and killed a zettian without needing to worry about its defense, proceeded to kill runa then cleave two damage to Ne gok, before bringing in feral troll.

I love Tandros, well worth the points if you match him up well!

To make this as short as I can

[CheddarLimbo]

Originally Posted by chaoserver

Tandros is probably the first unit I had to play to see his true power, I drafted him out of obligation because my two DnD sets came and we all wanted to test, in a 4 player 600 point draft. For some reason because everyone else was bashing him I didn't start my charge with him, and ultimately after many rounds my forces had dwindled, to a feral troll, raelin and him. One player had been wiped out, cyprien with many wounds stayed away because he would only have been able to chilling touch raelin and would not get an attack through on tandros most likely, and had ultimately died elsewhere as a result of that ability keeping him at bay.

So that ability played a huge role there very nicely. However cleave ended up as the best ability in that game easily, the strongest player other than me had ne gok sa and zettian which were holding down glyphs and one which was on shadow, he had a huge burst of luck and mindshackled both a feral troll from me and sergeant drake 170 pointer with three order markers and became a huge threat as there was no way I could take down negoksa with all his defense bonus or sergeant drake, let along the zettians that were holding down the defense glyphs.

However when the third player who was alive arrived with his Runa, who had been using all game and was ignored heavily due to bigger threats things changed. He killed Drake with a lucky D 20 which of course has nothing to do with Kreel, however using cleave over the course of a round I attacked Runa and killed a zettian without needing to worry about its defense, proceeded to kill runa then cleave two damage to Ne gok, before bringing in feral troll.

I love Tandros, well worth the points if you match him up well!

To make this as short as I can

Sorry, but you can't Cleave Heroes. It specifically targets squad figures only.

[spiteofthedice]

Just a note: I fixed the clarification. The key concept is "additional." Attacks that affect "additional" figures relative to the target may still do so. Separate attacks are not okay.

And yes, chaos, Tandros is the man.

~Spite